4 ms·

Anyone know why they were rejected from Bytecode Alliance?

donut-yogurt 5y ago
I believe it all started when Wasmer's founder allegedly sexually harassed a member of the Bytecode Alliance. From the outside it seems any collaboration was doomed from the start, and the trademark applications and internal conflicts didn't help Wasmer one bit.
- slimsag 5y ago
  I don't like Wasmer one bit, seems like an aggressive startup with a shady business model that is ultimately bad for the WASM ecosystem. It's possible what you say is true, but, how could anyone judge the validity of such an allegation from a throwaway account without more info?
  - donut-yogurt 5y ago
    I realize it's not ideal, but whether inappropriate behavior took place or not is irrelevant to Wasmer's relationship to the Alliance. For all we know, it could be a misunderstanding due to different cultures (which is what the founder claimed). What is relevant, though, is that a member of the Alliance made public claims of inappropriate behavior by Wasmer's founder and, nearly a year later, boosted them to justify why they weren't personally collaborating. I'm not going to link this for the benefit of the victim, but in fairness they did publish this online, and you can still find it if you're really interested. And once you take this background into context, some of the issues Wasmer faces just seem to click. Consider the late-cofounder post-mortem you linked in a different thread: > Another point: Syrus Akbary also has made many public errors that have created hostility against the company. Could it be about different issues? Well, certainly, but that one issue was steaming for a year within the Alliance, so...
    - syrusakbary 5y ago
      Let me put a hard stop here. Sexual harassment issues are a serious matter. They are not discussed online as a throwaway weapon. They are denounced to the relevant authorities so they can be punished by law. I will always defend anyone doing that even if the claim goes against my person or anyone I love. If you have chatted with anyone that has really suffered from it, you would know how important is to treat this things properly and not as a weapon to attack a company we don't like.
      - donut-yogurt 5y ago
        I didn't state either way, I just reported claims that anyone can verify online. Are you implying this didn't affect Wasmer's rejection from the Alliance?
        syrusakbary 5y ago
        > I didn't state either way, I just reported the claims that anyone can verify online. I hope you can understand how making unsupported claims of this caliber can be very damaging specially if done without any verification whatsoever. You didn't stated it but you did implied it. > Are you implying Wasmer was rejected from the Alliance for a different reason? You shall ask them instead of me.
        slimsag 5y ago
        > The rejection from the Bytecode Alliance was based on a history of behavior that isn’t compatible with the BA codes of conduct—both the individual CoC and the organizational CoC. > > We made both of these points explicit in the rejection email. In that email, we also said that if Wasmer established a track record of positive engagement, we would re-evaluate. From a BA member[0]. If I was you, I'd start reading some interpersonal communication books ASAP and really take some time to reflect deeply on what is happening here. It seems like a lot of people around you are making decisions that gravely impact your business and personal future (your lawyers trademarking things without you understanding what, the Bytecode Alliance rejecting you, people alleging harassment, etc.) and you're having a hard time understanding what they are doing and why. [0] https://github.com/WebAssembly/WASI/issues/3#issuecomment-713652851 https://github.com/WebAssembly/WASI/issues/3#issuecomment-71...
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    It's entirely possible that it's true. That the throwaway account was to provide information the main account owner couldn't provide because it was confidential. Alternatively, it could be totally made up. It's impossible to know. I do know someone elsewhere on HN[1] claimed to (a) work at wasmer and (b) that the decision was based on personal reasons. On a very low rated post. But that's also unverified, and could just mean that they think the founder is an ass. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24900186 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24900186
- syrusakbary 5y ago
  Syrus Akbary here (founder of Wasmer). This allegation is absolutely false
  - donut-yogurt 5y ago
    If you're going to keep saying that, at least spell it out. Did you mean: 1. No, no one at the Bytecode Alliance ever accused me of inappropriate behavior. 2. Someone at the Bytecode Alliance accused me of inappropriate behavior, but that was a false allegation. Spell it out, because regardless of which, this definitely played a part in why Wasmer is not a part of the Alliance, and that is what people were wondering about. I'll do it from my end: yes, they were accused of it. Their answers are roundabout ways of never confirming it because they claim they were accused unfairly, and that's fine, if irrelevant to what ended up happening to the Wasmer-BA relationship.
    - syrusakbary 5y ago
      Your throwaway account alleged something absolutely false without any proof (sexual harassment). Now the argument has shifted onto an accusation of inappropriate behavior (which actually doesn't even mean that there has been one). This are two very different things. Period. > I'll do it from my end: yes, they were accused of it Accused of sexual harassment by a member of the BA alliance? Never. This is absolutely false. If you have proof of that please share the information. I think any future readers will like reading about it But for the sake of discussion, let's play devils advocate. Even if such an accusation would exist (which in this case, it doesn't), it would not imply it's truthfulness. That's why it's super important to always put this matters into the hand of authorities so any bad behaviors (either sexual harassment or false accusations) are addressed with the full weight of the law.
      - donut-yogurt 5y ago
        > Accused of sexual harassment by a member of the BA alliance? Never. This is absolutely false. Are you joking me? Inappropriate physical behavior IS sexual harassment. You're trying to twist words to deny something happened. At this point I lost complete faith in you and now assume your claims that it was a misunderstanding an outright fabrication. I'm ashamed I ever rooted for Wasmer and hoped this was indeed culture clash. At no point in this conversation was the truthfulness or the legality of whatever happened in question: the question was "why was wasmer rejected from the bytecode alliance," and a "false" allegation that you "touched someone in a prolonged and overly-familiar way that caused them discomfort according to them but wasn't sexual harassment according to you" is the answer. In fact, you're saying this never happened and that false accusations need to be addressed with the full weight of the law? I'll see you in court I guess?

I believe it all started when Wasmer's founder allegedly sexually harassed a member of the Bytecode Alliance. From the outside it seems any collaboration was doomed from the start, and the trademark applications and internal conflicts didn't help Wasmer one bit.

slimsag 5y ago
I don't like Wasmer one bit, seems like an aggressive startup with a shady business model that is ultimately bad for the WASM ecosystem. It's possible what you say is true, but, how could anyone judge the validity of such an allegation from a throwaway account without more info?
- donut-yogurt 5y ago
  I realize it's not ideal, but whether inappropriate behavior took place or not is irrelevant to Wasmer's relationship to the Alliance. For all we know, it could be a misunderstanding due to different cultures (which is what the founder claimed). What is relevant, though, is that a member of the Alliance made public claims of inappropriate behavior by Wasmer's founder and, nearly a year later, boosted them to justify why they weren't personally collaborating. I'm not going to link this for the benefit of the victim, but in fairness they did publish this online, and you can still find it if you're really interested. And once you take this background into context, some of the issues Wasmer faces just seem to click. Consider the late-cofounder post-mortem you linked in a different thread: > Another point: Syrus Akbary also has made many public errors that have created hostility against the company. Could it be about different issues? Well, certainly, but that one issue was steaming for a year within the Alliance, so...
  - syrusakbary 5y ago
    Let me put a hard stop here. Sexual harassment issues are a serious matter. They are not discussed online as a throwaway weapon. They are denounced to the relevant authorities so they can be punished by law. I will always defend anyone doing that even if the claim goes against my person or anyone I love. If you have chatted with anyone that has really suffered from it, you would know how important is to treat this things properly and not as a weapon to attack a company we don't like.
    - donut-yogurt 5y ago
      I didn't state either way, I just reported claims that anyone can verify online. Are you implying this didn't affect Wasmer's rejection from the Alliance?
      - syrusakbary 5y ago
        > I didn't state either way, I just reported the claims that anyone can verify online. I hope you can understand how making unsupported claims of this caliber can be very damaging specially if done without any verification whatsoever. You didn't stated it but you did implied it. > Are you implying Wasmer was rejected from the Alliance for a different reason? You shall ask them instead of me.
        slimsag 5y ago
        > The rejection from the Bytecode Alliance was based on a history of behavior that isn’t compatible with the BA codes of conduct—both the individual CoC and the organizational CoC. > > We made both of these points explicit in the rejection email. In that email, we also said that if Wasmer established a track record of positive engagement, we would re-evaluate. From a BA member[0]. If I was you, I'd start reading some interpersonal communication books ASAP and really take some time to reflect deeply on what is happening here. It seems like a lot of people around you are making decisions that gravely impact your business and personal future (your lawyers trademarking things without you understanding what, the Bytecode Alliance rejecting you, people alleging harassment, etc.) and you're having a hard time understanding what they are doing and why. [0] https://github.com/WebAssembly/WASI/issues/3#issuecomment-713652851 https://github.com/WebAssembly/WASI/issues/3#issuecomment-71...
- HWR_14 5y ago
  It's entirely possible that it's true. That the throwaway account was to provide information the main account owner couldn't provide because it was confidential. Alternatively, it could be totally made up. It's impossible to know. I do know someone elsewhere on HN[1] claimed to (a) work at wasmer and (b) that the decision was based on personal reasons. On a very low rated post. But that's also unverified, and could just mean that they think the founder is an ass. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24900186 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24900186
syrusakbary 5y ago
Syrus Akbary here (founder of Wasmer). This allegation is absolutely false
- donut-yogurt 5y ago
  If you're going to keep saying that, at least spell it out. Did you mean: 1. No, no one at the Bytecode Alliance ever accused me of inappropriate behavior. 2. Someone at the Bytecode Alliance accused me of inappropriate behavior, but that was a false allegation. Spell it out, because regardless of which, this definitely played a part in why Wasmer is not a part of the Alliance, and that is what people were wondering about. I'll do it from my end: yes, they were accused of it. Their answers are roundabout ways of never confirming it because they claim they were accused unfairly, and that's fine, if irrelevant to what ended up happening to the Wasmer-BA relationship.
  - syrusakbary 5y ago
    Your throwaway account alleged something absolutely false without any proof (sexual harassment). Now the argument has shifted onto an accusation of inappropriate behavior (which actually doesn't even mean that there has been one). This are two very different things. Period. > I'll do it from my end: yes, they were accused of it Accused of sexual harassment by a member of the BA alliance? Never. This is absolutely false. If you have proof of that please share the information. I think any future readers will like reading about it But for the sake of discussion, let's play devils advocate. Even if such an accusation would exist (which in this case, it doesn't), it would not imply it's truthfulness. That's why it's super important to always put this matters into the hand of authorities so any bad behaviors (either sexual harassment or false accusations) are addressed with the full weight of the law.
    - donut-yogurt 5y ago
      > Accused of sexual harassment by a member of the BA alliance? Never. This is absolutely false. Are you joking me? Inappropriate physical behavior IS sexual harassment. You're trying to twist words to deny something happened. At this point I lost complete faith in you and now assume your claims that it was a misunderstanding an outright fabrication. I'm ashamed I ever rooted for Wasmer and hoped this was indeed culture clash. At no point in this conversation was the truthfulness or the legality of whatever happened in question: the question was "why was wasmer rejected from the bytecode alliance," and a "false" allegation that you "touched someone in a prolonged and overly-familiar way that caused them discomfort according to them but wasn't sexual harassment according to you" is the answer. In fact, you're saying this never happened and that false accusations need to be addressed with the full weight of the law? I'll see you in court I guess?