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No. I'm saying you shouldn't deceptively use people for your personal benefit by interrupting whatever they're doing with a pretextual request as a form of ther

by dtrent 5y ago

No. I'm saying you shouldn't deceptively use people for your personal benefit by interrupting whatever they're doing with a pretextual request as a form of therapy for yourself. I hear you--I dealt with social anxiety severely for many years and still do to a lesser extent. But nothing about this justifies cynically exploiting people under false pretenses for selfish ends. If you want to talk to strangers, great! Just don't deceive them for selfish ends.

ionwake 5y ago
You are taking this to an extreme and I’d argue that at this level aren’t all conversations self serving ? In the end it’s an exchange of information. At this extreme not clarifying a question would be a deception.
cobertos 5y ago
Perhaps the methodologies in the article itself are too abrasive (the specific conversation topics used), and I could see taking the side that, yeah, okay, there's some critique here. But the issue of not communicating for selfish ends seems, not possible. Isn't all conversation, in some form, selfish? You're wanting information from other people (how their day was, what they're interested in), you want to vent about a topic, you want to communicate something that excites yourself and feel a connection, you want to get information for certain actionable issues. Even a purely altruistic use of listening to someone in need has its own selfish motivations, to strengthen a friendship, or to feel good about helping someone else (why do we help people in the first place? Does it feel good to follow our own principles?). There's definitely a spectrum there, and us, trying to perceive someone else's intent, is the framing that would make it right/wrong.
openknot 5y ago
I initially had a similar feeling, but upon further reflection, I changed my mind by considering a wider timescale. In the long run, it's likely worse for society as a whole if people have social anxiety that could be treated. Left untreated, social anxiety can lead to antisocial behaviors and other psychological ailments (e.g. severe depression). If I can respond to a minor request that helps in some way to alleviate this, I don't mind. Part of the issue is related to the degree of the ask. I genuinely wouldn't mind someone asking me for directions, as it's a short-term commitment that is a quick ask (and if it would, I can just decline to help). If anything, most people would feel positively by being able to help another person in a minor way. I wouldn't even frame it as selfish. Leaving anxiety untreated can cause behavior that can be seen as selfish down the road, while actively seeking to treat it via minor requests can help one be in a better position to help others down the road.
mattxxx 5y ago
I'm with you on this. Challenging your own anxiety - and breaking out of your shell - should not be part of some group exercise. The article implies that a group of people were let loose with instructions to bother people: > Once we got downtown and the exercise officially began, I achieved slightly above my own expectations, which were fairly low. I approached maybe 12-15 people total, in an hour and a half. (Some of the others reported approaching two or three times that number.) :/

by dtrent 5y ago

ionwake 5y ago

You are taking this to an extreme and I’d argue that at this level aren’t all conversations self serving ? In the end it’s an exchange of information. At this extreme not clarifying a question would be a deception.

cobertos 5y ago

Perhaps the methodologies in the article itself are too abrasive (the specific conversation topics used), and I could see taking the side that, yeah, okay, there's some critique here. But the issue of not communicating for selfish ends seems, not possible. Isn't all conversation, in some form, selfish? You're wanting information from other people (how their day was, what they're interested in), you want to vent about a topic, you want to communicate something that excites yourself and feel a connection, you want to get information for certain actionable issues. Even a purely altruistic use of listening to someone in need has its own selfish motivations, to strengthen a friendship, or to feel good about helping someone else (why do we help people in the first place? Does it feel good to follow our own principles?). There's definitely a spectrum there, and us, trying to perceive someone else's intent, is the framing that would make it right/wrong.

openknot 5y ago

I initially had a similar feeling, but upon further reflection, I changed my mind by considering a wider timescale. In the long run, it's likely worse for society as a whole if people have social anxiety that could be treated. Left untreated, social anxiety can lead to antisocial behaviors and other psychological ailments (e.g. severe depression). If I can respond to a minor request that helps in some way to alleviate this, I don't mind. Part of the issue is related to the degree of the ask. I genuinely wouldn't mind someone asking me for directions, as it's a short-term commitment that is a quick ask (and if it would, I can just decline to help). If anything, most people would feel positively by being able to help another person in a minor way. I wouldn't even frame it as selfish. Leaving anxiety untreated can cause behavior that can be seen as selfish down the road, while actively seeking to treat it via minor requests can help one be in a better position to help others down the road.

mattxxx 5y ago

I'm with you on this. Challenging your own anxiety - and breaking out of your shell - should not be part of some group exercise. The article implies that a group of people were let loose with instructions to bother people: > Once we got downtown and the exercise officially began, I achieved slightly above my own expectations, which were fairly low. I approached maybe 12-15 people total, in an hour and a half. (Some of the others reported approaching two or three times that number.) :/