4 ms·

I really want to become an Orthodox Christian but feel like I would struggle with the whole "believing in God" thing. Should I still try it? Is there any way th

by yuuu 5y ago

I really want to become an Orthodox Christian but feel like I would struggle with the whole "believing in God" thing. Should I still try it? Is there any way that I could "come to believe in God" in time?

azth 5y ago
> Is there any way that I could "come to believe in God" in time? The door is always open. Please check out: https://www.provingislam.com/ https://www.provingislam.com/
prometheus76 5y ago
Orthodoxy definitely takes a different approach than just accepting a proposition. I was a staunch atheist for many years, after having grown up Mormon. I was bitter and felt betrayed as I fell away from Mormonism. Here's what changed for me: I realized that the Christianity I had been a part of was still rooted in the Enlightenment and in empiricism. It tries to prove itself to be legitimate and relevant by trying to use archeology or science to verify the Bible. It's completely backwards and futile. I listened to the Bible lectures that Jordan Peterson made several years ago, and I was intrigued because I had never heard anyone putting aside the historical story of the Bible and instead focusing on its relevance from a neuroscience point of view. This led to me eventually finding the work of Jonathan Pageau. He's an Orthodox icon carver, and he talks about the traditional worldview, how to understand the Bible from an ontological point of view (a hierarchy of being) rather than from a "scientific" or empirical point of view. It took a year or two before I really started to understand what he even meant, but once I started to understand that way of looking at the world, my whole world changed and I quickly joined the Orthodox Church. To be more specific, I would recommend finding an Orthodox Church local to you, and just go see what it's like. Introduce yourself to the priest after the service, and he would be happy to talk with you and helping you begin to see the Orthodox way of life. The Orthodox approach focuses much more on your relationship with God, rather than a list of checkboxes of do's and don't-dos. It's very participatory. It demands a lot from the followers, but the sense of meaning, being, and purpose that have replaced my old sense of nihilism, meaninglessness, and despair...I can't even put into words how much my life has changed.
- yuuu 5y ago
  Thank you for the great response. I am also not a fan of conflating science and religion, so this is a refreshing take. I will take a look into Jonathan Pageau and maybe even visit my local Orthodox church (although I'm very scared)!
  - prometheus76 5y ago
    Be patient with yourself and take it one day at a time.
webmobdev 5y ago
If you have a hard time believing in God, then why limit yourself to just Christianity? Islam is ideal for exploring spiritualism through structure and discipline, Hinduism and Buddhism are great to explore spirituality from a psychological plane. This might offend some but while self-studying these religions, I found Christianity to be quite underwhelming, spiritually. In fact, if it wasn't for the writings of Desmond Tutu, I would have no appreciation of it. The only religion I haven't been exposed to is Judaism, as Jewish community are quite rare in India.
- prometheus76 5y ago
  I agree that most forms of Christianity can be underwhelming, but Orthodoxy has a rich tradition that dates back over two thousand years of a mystical relationship with God, rooted in prayer. It's very different than any other form of Christianity that I have ever heard of.
  - webmobdev 5y ago
    According to Hindu philosophy, there are 4 ways to explore spiritualism: 1. Doing one's duty with detachment - the mind is trained to detach from the results of one's action and not attach positive or negative associations to it, thus weakening the ego and leading to enlightenment. 2. Self-enquiry and awareness - Pursuit of knowledge, and understanding of your own self in relation to the world to achieve a heightened consciousness of how you perceive the world through your senses, leading to liberation of the self. 3. Meditation - Related to 2. 4. Devotion - Loving devotion and surrender of self to a God leading to enlightenment. Which one does Orthodoxy fall under? (Sounds like 4).
    - prometheus76 5y ago
      In Orthodoxy, prayer is considered the "art of arts and the science of sciences". Everything in Orthodoxy is intended to improve your prayer life, and your prayer life is how you enter in and pursue a personal relationship with God.
- yuuu 5y ago
willcipriano 5y ago
Check out the Jefferson Bible. I'm a fan of Christ but consider him one of the great moral philosophers instead of the son of god. This reading of the surmon on the mount moves me even though I'm not religious: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-3nN9-C1yKU https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-3nN9-C1yKU

by yuuu 5y ago

azth 5y ago

> Is there any way that I could "come to believe in God" in time? The door is always open. Please check out: https://www.provingislam.com/ https://www.provingislam.com/

prometheus76 5y ago

Orthodoxy definitely takes a different approach than just accepting a proposition. I was a staunch atheist for many years, after having grown up Mormon. I was bitter and felt betrayed as I fell away from Mormonism. Here's what changed for me: I realized that the Christianity I had been a part of was still rooted in the Enlightenment and in empiricism. It tries to prove itself to be legitimate and relevant by trying to use archeology or science to verify the Bible. It's completely backwards and futile. I listened to the Bible lectures that Jordan Peterson made several years ago, and I was intrigued because I had never heard anyone putting aside the historical story of the Bible and instead focusing on its relevance from a neuroscience point of view. This led to me eventually finding the work of Jonathan Pageau. He's an Orthodox icon carver, and he talks about the traditional worldview, how to understand the Bible from an ontological point of view (a hierarchy of being) rather than from a "scientific" or empirical point of view. It took a year or two before I really started to understand what he even meant, but once I started to understand that way of looking at the world, my whole world changed and I quickly joined the Orthodox Church. To be more specific, I would recommend finding an Orthodox Church local to you, and just go see what it's like. Introduce yourself to the priest after the service, and he would be happy to talk with you and helping you begin to see the Orthodox way of life. The Orthodox approach focuses much more on your relationship with God, rather than a list of checkboxes of do's and don't-dos. It's very participatory. It demands a lot from the followers, but the sense of meaning, being, and purpose that have replaced my old sense of nihilism, meaninglessness, and despair...I can't even put into words how much my life has changed.

yuuu 5y ago
Thank you for the great response. I am also not a fan of conflating science and religion, so this is a refreshing take. I will take a look into Jonathan Pageau and maybe even visit my local Orthodox church (although I'm very scared)!
- prometheus76 5y ago
  Be patient with yourself and take it one day at a time.

webmobdev 5y ago

If you have a hard time believing in God, then why limit yourself to just Christianity? Islam is ideal for exploring spiritualism through structure and discipline, Hinduism and Buddhism are great to explore spirituality from a psychological plane. This might offend some but while self-studying these religions, I found Christianity to be quite underwhelming, spiritually. In fact, if it wasn't for the writings of Desmond Tutu, I would have no appreciation of it. The only religion I haven't been exposed to is Judaism, as Jewish community are quite rare in India.

prometheus76 5y ago
I agree that most forms of Christianity can be underwhelming, but Orthodoxy has a rich tradition that dates back over two thousand years of a mystical relationship with God, rooted in prayer. It's very different than any other form of Christianity that I have ever heard of.
- webmobdev 5y ago
  According to Hindu philosophy, there are 4 ways to explore spiritualism: 1. Doing one's duty with detachment - the mind is trained to detach from the results of one's action and not attach positive or negative associations to it, thus weakening the ego and leading to enlightenment. 2. Self-enquiry and awareness - Pursuit of knowledge, and understanding of your own self in relation to the world to achieve a heightened consciousness of how you perceive the world through your senses, leading to liberation of the self. 3. Meditation - Related to 2. 4. Devotion - Loving devotion and surrender of self to a God leading to enlightenment. Which one does Orthodoxy fall under? (Sounds like 4).
  - prometheus76 5y ago
    In Orthodoxy, prayer is considered the "art of arts and the science of sciences". Everything in Orthodoxy is intended to improve your prayer life, and your prayer life is how you enter in and pursue a personal relationship with God.
yuuu 5y ago

willcipriano 5y ago

Check out the Jefferson Bible. I'm a fan of Christ but consider him one of the great moral philosophers instead of the son of god. This reading of the surmon on the mount moves me even though I'm not religious: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-3nN9-C1yKU https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-3nN9-C1yKU