5 ms·

I disagree. I get this exact anxiety, but the anxiety needs to be challenged. The communication is what forms the bedrock of a healthy society that can talk abo

I disagree. I get this exact anxiety, but the anxiety needs to be challenged. The communication is what forms the bedrock of a healthy society that can talk about it's problems and needs and find it's way to the empathy of the decision makers.

dtrent 5y ago
maybe but making the decision for someone else of whether, when, and how their anxieties should be challenged is, again, kind of shitty
- olyjohn 5y ago
  Are you saying that you should never interact with strangers because you might make them anxious? There's probably tons of things that can make people anxious. I'm not going to lock myself in the house to avoid making others anxious. As a socially anxious person myself, I would love for someone to start the conversation with me.
  - dtrent 5y ago
    No. I'm saying you shouldn't deceptively use people for your personal benefit by interrupting whatever they're doing with a pretextual request as a form of therapy for yourself. I hear you--I dealt with social anxiety severely for many years and still do to a lesser extent. But nothing about this justifies cynically exploiting people under false pretenses for selfish ends. If you want to talk to strangers, great! Just don't deceive them for selfish ends.
    - ionwake 5y ago
      You are taking this to an extreme and I’d argue that at this level aren’t all conversations self serving ? In the end it’s an exchange of information. At this extreme not clarifying a question would be a deception.
    - cobertos 5y ago
      Perhaps the methodologies in the article itself are too abrasive (the specific conversation topics used), and I could see taking the side that, yeah, okay, there's some critique here. But the issue of not communicating for selfish ends seems, not possible. Isn't all conversation, in some form, selfish? You're wanting information from other people (how their day was, what they're interested in), you want to vent about a topic, you want to communicate something that excites yourself and feel a connection, you want to get information for certain actionable issues. Even a purely altruistic use of listening to someone in need has its own selfish motivations, to strengthen a friendship, or to feel good about helping someone else (why do we help people in the first place? Does it feel good to follow our own principles?). There's definitely a spectrum there, and us, trying to perceive someone else's intent, is the framing that would make it right/wrong.
    - openknot 5y ago
      I initially had a similar feeling, but upon further reflection, I changed my mind by considering a wider timescale. In the long run, it's likely worse for society as a whole if people have social anxiety that could be treated. Left untreated, social anxiety can lead to antisocial behaviors and other psychological ailments (e.g. severe depression). If I can respond to a minor request that helps in some way to alleviate this, I don't mind. Part of the issue is related to the degree of the ask. I genuinely wouldn't mind someone asking me for directions, as it's a short-term commitment that is a quick ask (and if it would, I can just decline to help). If anything, most people would feel positively by being able to help another person in a minor way. I wouldn't even frame it as selfish. Leaving anxiety untreated can cause behavior that can be seen as selfish down the road, while actively seeking to treat it via minor requests can help one be in a better position to help others down the road.
    - mattxxx 5y ago
      I'm with you on this. Challenging your own anxiety - and breaking out of your shell - should not be part of some group exercise. The article implies that a group of people were let loose with instructions to bother people: > Once we got downtown and the exercise officially began, I achieved slightly above my own expectations, which were fairly low. I approached maybe 12-15 people total, in an hour and a half. (Some of the others reported approaching two or three times that number.) :/
- nuclearnice1 5y ago
  I agree with you. He doesn’t even want these things. May I try on your sunglasses? Can I have a taste of your ice cream? I guess they set the bar low to encourage the experimenters. “Don’t worry you can ask for anything — ask for a dollar! Borrow their newspaper!” I would be more open to it if they had done some thinking. What’s something you genuinely need? Go ask for it. But I guess that’s not as simple. This is just street side IRL spam. Can I have those plastic flowers that I don’t want by which I mean can I waste your time with a nonsense game so I fresh content for my blog? It’s also fundamentally selfish: “ask random strangers to do you favors” Why not go out into the world and ask if you can do favors? Find a homeless guy or gal. Ask if he wants your shoes. Ask if she needs a dollar. Then you at least anticipate finding people who welcome partition in your psychological experiment.
  - openknot 5y ago
    I had a different impression about the magnitude of the requests from your comment than from the article. I pictured the "ice cream" request as asking a person with an ice cream code to let you have a taste, but there's a nuance: the article doesn't actually refer to ice cream, and it looks like it would involve asking a food sample from a store. From the article: "Examples would be asking for their newspaper, or asking for a few dollars, or a phone number, or to try on their shoes. Or going into a store and asking for some free food. [...] I asked for a number of newspapers. I asked to take the plastic flowers from a storefront. I asked to borrow board games from the board game store. I asked to climb a ladder that a construction worker was setting up – and he let me!" For what it's worth, the food sample and plastic flowers requests are made from businesses, were the requests aren't too unreasonable (samples are normal to ask where I live, and the flower request can be paid back with repeat business). However, I admit that the sunglasses request was strange (along with the suggestion to try someone's shoes). I like the spirit behind asking if you can do others favors, but I predict it might weaken the exercise. The behavior is targeting a reluctance to ask for help and favors from others when it counts (it's important for long-term wellbeing to have a balance between taking and giving, versus just giving). It's easier to get rejected when asking to help another person, versus when facing rejection when doing something for yourself (e.g. applying to a job or opportunity).

dtrent 5y ago

maybe but making the decision for someone else of whether, when, and how their anxieties should be challenged is, again, kind of shitty

olyjohn 5y ago
Are you saying that you should never interact with strangers because you might make them anxious? There's probably tons of things that can make people anxious. I'm not going to lock myself in the house to avoid making others anxious. As a socially anxious person myself, I would love for someone to start the conversation with me.
- dtrent 5y ago
  No. I'm saying you shouldn't deceptively use people for your personal benefit by interrupting whatever they're doing with a pretextual request as a form of therapy for yourself. I hear you--I dealt with social anxiety severely for many years and still do to a lesser extent. But nothing about this justifies cynically exploiting people under false pretenses for selfish ends. If you want to talk to strangers, great! Just don't deceive them for selfish ends.
  - ionwake 5y ago
    You are taking this to an extreme and I’d argue that at this level aren’t all conversations self serving ? In the end it’s an exchange of information. At this extreme not clarifying a question would be a deception.
  - cobertos 5y ago
    Perhaps the methodologies in the article itself are too abrasive (the specific conversation topics used), and I could see taking the side that, yeah, okay, there's some critique here. But the issue of not communicating for selfish ends seems, not possible. Isn't all conversation, in some form, selfish? You're wanting information from other people (how their day was, what they're interested in), you want to vent about a topic, you want to communicate something that excites yourself and feel a connection, you want to get information for certain actionable issues. Even a purely altruistic use of listening to someone in need has its own selfish motivations, to strengthen a friendship, or to feel good about helping someone else (why do we help people in the first place? Does it feel good to follow our own principles?). There's definitely a spectrum there, and us, trying to perceive someone else's intent, is the framing that would make it right/wrong.
  - openknot 5y ago
    I initially had a similar feeling, but upon further reflection, I changed my mind by considering a wider timescale. In the long run, it's likely worse for society as a whole if people have social anxiety that could be treated. Left untreated, social anxiety can lead to antisocial behaviors and other psychological ailments (e.g. severe depression). If I can respond to a minor request that helps in some way to alleviate this, I don't mind. Part of the issue is related to the degree of the ask. I genuinely wouldn't mind someone asking me for directions, as it's a short-term commitment that is a quick ask (and if it would, I can just decline to help). If anything, most people would feel positively by being able to help another person in a minor way. I wouldn't even frame it as selfish. Leaving anxiety untreated can cause behavior that can be seen as selfish down the road, while actively seeking to treat it via minor requests can help one be in a better position to help others down the road.
  - mattxxx 5y ago
    I'm with you on this. Challenging your own anxiety - and breaking out of your shell - should not be part of some group exercise. The article implies that a group of people were let loose with instructions to bother people: > Once we got downtown and the exercise officially began, I achieved slightly above my own expectations, which were fairly low. I approached maybe 12-15 people total, in an hour and a half. (Some of the others reported approaching two or three times that number.) :/
nuclearnice1 5y ago
I agree with you. He doesn’t even want these things. May I try on your sunglasses? Can I have a taste of your ice cream? I guess they set the bar low to encourage the experimenters. “Don’t worry you can ask for anything — ask for a dollar! Borrow their newspaper!” I would be more open to it if they had done some thinking. What’s something you genuinely need? Go ask for it. But I guess that’s not as simple. This is just street side IRL spam. Can I have those plastic flowers that I don’t want by which I mean can I waste your time with a nonsense game so I fresh content for my blog? It’s also fundamentally selfish: “ask random strangers to do you favors” Why not go out into the world and ask if you can do favors? Find a homeless guy or gal. Ask if he wants your shoes. Ask if she needs a dollar. Then you at least anticipate finding people who welcome partition in your psychological experiment.
- openknot 5y ago
  I had a different impression about the magnitude of the requests from your comment than from the article. I pictured the "ice cream" request as asking a person with an ice cream code to let you have a taste, but there's a nuance: the article doesn't actually refer to ice cream, and it looks like it would involve asking a food sample from a store. From the article: "Examples would be asking for their newspaper, or asking for a few dollars, or a phone number, or to try on their shoes. Or going into a store and asking for some free food. [...] I asked for a number of newspapers. I asked to take the plastic flowers from a storefront. I asked to borrow board games from the board game store. I asked to climb a ladder that a construction worker was setting up – and he let me!" For what it's worth, the food sample and plastic flowers requests are made from businesses, were the requests aren't too unreasonable (samples are normal to ask where I live, and the flower request can be paid back with repeat business). However, I admit that the sunglasses request was strange (along with the suggestion to try someone's shoes). I like the spirit behind asking if you can do others favors, but I predict it might weaken the exercise. The behavior is targeting a reluctance to ask for help and favors from others when it counts (it's important for long-term wellbeing to have a balance between taking and giving, versus just giving). It's easier to get rejected when asking to help another person, versus when facing rejection when doing something for yourself (e.g. applying to a job or opportunity).