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> (if you are) correct about racial unfairness in the criminal justice system (which you are not) I think if we can't agree here, we are unlikely to agree on m

> (if you are) correct about racial unfairness in the criminal justice system (which you are not) I think if we can't agree here, we are unlikely to agree on much of anything at all. > you are arguing that biased outcomes in criminal law are the intentional outcome of right-wingers targeting their political enemies (who are black people, apparently?) Yes. And closer to scapegoat/target than enemy, but sure. > even if the police enforcing these laws were majority right-wing They are, as I understand it. But I care little about this point and accept that there are many good police officers who are not biased. > it was all a right-wing plot completely untenable Its not a plot. Its a tool used by the right wing to achieve their aims. Whether that tool had good or bad motives at the start is immaterial to the discussion of how its used in practice. > With all this in mind, what you are arguing sounds more like a conspiracy theory. The right wing has many tools at its disposal in order to silence and oppress their targets. Of these tools, public derision via cancel culture requires specific targets and has a large chance of blow back via the Streissand effect rallying supporters to the targetted individual. In contrast, broad untargetted attacks afforded by diffuse structures like criminal law enforcement, crippling economic controls, political deactivation via gerrymandering and direct voter suppression are far more effective tools at their disposal. Notice the fact that you are able to point to a specific event and specific supporters of the outcome of that event in your comparison of "left" cancel culture to "right" oppression. I know you have decided that is the nail in the coffin of my argument. However, consider how much more effective my arguments could be and how difficult a time you would have if that person were fired from their job after holding that ok sign up. But there wasn't a twitter mob. Just a routine dismissal from the company. And all you could do was point at how often that happens to people like that and how little it happens to people who do the same thing but have a different skin color/sex/wear glasses/whatever.

lliamander 5y ago
You have yet to explain how racially unfair outcomes in the criminal justice system are the intended result of actions by the political right. I point out those on the political left have been involved in all aspects of the crafting and enforcement of these laws. You have made no other argument than to point out that disparate outcomes in the criminal justice system exist.
- Misdicorl 5y ago
  Here are two links. Marijuana (though nothing to link explicitly to gop): https://www.aclu.org/gallery/marijuana-arrests-numbers https://www.aclu.org/gallery/marijuana-arrests-numbers Jury of peers, very explicit from gop: https://www.themarshallproject.org/2019/08/07/racism-tainted-their-trials-should-they-still-be-executed https://www.themarshallproject.org/2019/08/07/racism-tainted... I'm not an expert; these are the first two things I stumbled on in verifying my position. I don't believe you are discussing in good faith, goodbye.
  - lliamander 5y ago
    > I don't believe you are discussing in good faith, goodbye Are you capable of discerning between bad faith and disagreement? I actually believe what I am arguing: that cancel culture in the present moment is dominated by the Left. Do Republicans and people on the right do bad stuff? Absolutely (even if i disagree about many of the particulars). But cancel culture is far from the only critique I have of the Left. This is not about "which side is worse" in the broader picture. I'm trying not to simply turn this into a political mud-slinging contest. I'm trying to get at what cancel culture actually is (you know, the topic of this thread). In response, you made a claim that certain things were examples of "cancel culture" coming from the right. A claim you have thus far still utterly failed to defend. If all you want to do is complain about every bad thing a Republican ever did, then I agree this discussion should end.
    - Misdicorl 5y ago
      Because you do seem genuine I will describe why I find this discussion to be in bad faith. You rarely (if ever) grant a charitable interpretation to my statements. You (almost?) always extrapolate my comments to the most extreme and weakest position. You seem to mostly be interested in "winning" and are funneling the conversation to points you find yourself most comfortable and strongest in. You regularly attack me as a person. I find it unlikely that if I were to surface information and/or an argument to you that you did not know, that you would incorporate it into your world view. It seems you would dismiss it and focus on other aspects of the discussion and/or extrapolate the new argument to an absurd extreme thus making it irrelevant. > In response, you made a claim that certain things were examples of "cancel culture" coming from the right. A claim you have thus far still utterly failed to defend. I think this is the crux here. I offered a potential alternative explanation for why we might see more "cancel culture" from the "left" than the "right". Simply that the "right" often has more effective and lower risk options in "cancelling" a person.

lliamander 5y ago

You have yet to explain how racially unfair outcomes in the criminal justice system are the intended result of actions by the political right. I point out those on the political left have been involved in all aspects of the crafting and enforcement of these laws. You have made no other argument than to point out that disparate outcomes in the criminal justice system exist.

Misdicorl 5y ago
Here are two links. Marijuana (though nothing to link explicitly to gop): https://www.aclu.org/gallery/marijuana-arrests-numbers https://www.aclu.org/gallery/marijuana-arrests-numbers Jury of peers, very explicit from gop: https://www.themarshallproject.org/2019/08/07/racism-tainted-their-trials-should-they-still-be-executed https://www.themarshallproject.org/2019/08/07/racism-tainted... I'm not an expert; these are the first two things I stumbled on in verifying my position. I don't believe you are discussing in good faith, goodbye.
- lliamander 5y ago
  > I don't believe you are discussing in good faith, goodbye Are you capable of discerning between bad faith and disagreement? I actually believe what I am arguing: that cancel culture in the present moment is dominated by the Left. Do Republicans and people on the right do bad stuff? Absolutely (even if i disagree about many of the particulars). But cancel culture is far from the only critique I have of the Left. This is not about "which side is worse" in the broader picture. I'm trying not to simply turn this into a political mud-slinging contest. I'm trying to get at what cancel culture actually is (you know, the topic of this thread). In response, you made a claim that certain things were examples of "cancel culture" coming from the right. A claim you have thus far still utterly failed to defend. If all you want to do is complain about every bad thing a Republican ever did, then I agree this discussion should end.
  - Misdicorl 5y ago
    Because you do seem genuine I will describe why I find this discussion to be in bad faith. You rarely (if ever) grant a charitable interpretation to my statements. You (almost?) always extrapolate my comments to the most extreme and weakest position. You seem to mostly be interested in "winning" and are funneling the conversation to points you find yourself most comfortable and strongest in. You regularly attack me as a person. I find it unlikely that if I were to surface information and/or an argument to you that you did not know, that you would incorporate it into your world view. It seems you would dismiss it and focus on other aspects of the discussion and/or extrapolate the new argument to an absurd extreme thus making it irrelevant. > In response, you made a claim that certain things were examples of "cancel culture" coming from the right. A claim you have thus far still utterly failed to defend. I think this is the crux here. I offered a potential alternative explanation for why we might see more "cancel culture" from the "left" than the "right". Simply that the "right" often has more effective and lower risk options in "cancelling" a person.