5 ms·

We used to host our own software. It was called an application and it ran on your personal computer. We just need that, but running on some appliance instead, l

by pkulak 5y ago

We used to host our own software. It was called an application and it ran on your personal computer. We just need that, but running on some appliance instead, like a NAS. Package the service up in something like docker-compose, have a way to sell it, install it, update it and support it. Synology is pretty close with their Docker support, but still pretty far.

throwaway894345 5y ago
You also need stuff like networking, TLS/certs, and DNS which aren't easily packaged, at least not in a way that doesn't require you to make sketchy changes on every client device.
- pkulak 5y ago
  Something like Cloudflare Argo tunneling would work great for this. No certs at all for the user to mess around with, it terminated on the public internet, not in your house.
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    I guess I’m assuming at least some things are on a private network, in which case things are much more complicated.
    - pkulak 5y ago
      No, not at all. You can tunnel traffic from any machine, anywhere to be terminated at a public IP.
      - throwaway894345 5y ago
        I think you're misunderstanding the objective. I don't want most of my services (e.g., personal finance, photos, Plex, etc) to terminate at a public IP, that's the whole point of the private network in the first place. So for those explicitly private services, we now need DNS and TLS and in the latter case ideally something like LetsEncrypt so you don't have to manually rotate your certs (but the normal verification methods don't work because your service isn't accessible to LE in the first place--maybe you can run some bastion/proxy?).
- southerntofu 5y ago
  > You also need stuff like networking, TLS/certs, and DNS which aren't easily packaged The only thing that cannot be packaged is changing your home network settings. For this you need to click buttons on your modem/router. Fortunately, many selfhosted programs (eg. prosody for XMPP chat) and distros (eg. yunohost) have check commands or panels to figure out what's not configured well on your network and guide you through the process. Also worth pointing out, Yunohost distro is also intended to be used over a VPN precisely so you don't have to deal with networking setup. Yunohost was bred in the non-profit ISP scene here in France and so your local ISP will provide you with an "internet cube" (SBC) and a VPN access giving you real public IPv4/IPv6 so that: - you don't have to configure the network - you don't have to change DNS settings when you change connection (your server works if you take it with you over 3G/4G/whateverG) - your ISP doesn't get to filter the network (unless it filters VPN access but that's rather uncommon) See also https://internetcu.be/ https://internetcu.be/
erulabs 5y ago
Not to advertise, but I'm building exactly that at https://pibox.io https://pibox.io - also solving other problems people have identified in this thread like automatic valid certificates, DNS, remote access, etc :)
- pkulak 5y ago
  Wow, love it! I host a matrix server on my current NAS, but I can’t put the database there cus spinning drives are just so slow. I’ve got the DB on a random Mac right now, but this is my new upgrade path.
edgyquant 5y ago
The problem is you’re fighting a battle against global economies of scale for what is essentially a hobby or personal project. This is not a winning battle and most companies prefer to outsource the risk to someone else they can point to shareholders and blame. People get caught up in the technical aspects of developing for cloud but I’d bet those weren’t anywhere near as important as risk outsourcing for the executive. At that point cloud was still new and the thought was we can run our infra if we need to.

by pkulak 5y ago

throwaway894345 5y ago

You also need stuff like networking, TLS/certs, and DNS which aren't easily packaged, at least not in a way that doesn't require you to make sketchy changes on every client device.

pkulak 5y ago
Something like Cloudflare Argo tunneling would work great for this. No certs at all for the user to mess around with, it terminated on the public internet, not in your house.
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  I guess I’m assuming at least some things are on a private network, in which case things are much more complicated.
  - pkulak 5y ago
    No, not at all. You can tunnel traffic from any machine, anywhere to be terminated at a public IP.
    - throwaway894345 5y ago
      I think you're misunderstanding the objective. I don't want most of my services (e.g., personal finance, photos, Plex, etc) to terminate at a public IP, that's the whole point of the private network in the first place. So for those explicitly private services, we now need DNS and TLS and in the latter case ideally something like LetsEncrypt so you don't have to manually rotate your certs (but the normal verification methods don't work because your service isn't accessible to LE in the first place--maybe you can run some bastion/proxy?).
southerntofu 5y ago
> You also need stuff like networking, TLS/certs, and DNS which aren't easily packaged The only thing that cannot be packaged is changing your home network settings. For this you need to click buttons on your modem/router. Fortunately, many selfhosted programs (eg. prosody for XMPP chat) and distros (eg. yunohost) have check commands or panels to figure out what's not configured well on your network and guide you through the process. Also worth pointing out, Yunohost distro is also intended to be used over a VPN precisely so you don't have to deal with networking setup. Yunohost was bred in the non-profit ISP scene here in France and so your local ISP will provide you with an "internet cube" (SBC) and a VPN access giving you real public IPv4/IPv6 so that: - you don't have to configure the network - you don't have to change DNS settings when you change connection (your server works if you take it with you over 3G/4G/whateverG) - your ISP doesn't get to filter the network (unless it filters VPN access but that's rather uncommon) See also https://internetcu.be/ https://internetcu.be/

erulabs 5y ago

Not to advertise, but I'm building exactly that at https://pibox.io https://pibox.io - also solving other problems people have identified in this thread like automatic valid certificates, DNS, remote access, etc :)

pkulak 5y ago
Wow, love it! I host a matrix server on my current NAS, but I can’t put the database there cus spinning drives are just so slow. I’ve got the DB on a random Mac right now, but this is my new upgrade path.

edgyquant 5y ago

The problem is you’re fighting a battle against global economies of scale for what is essentially a hobby or personal project. This is not a winning battle and most companies prefer to outsource the risk to someone else they can point to shareholders and blame. People get caught up in the technical aspects of developing for cloud but I’d bet those weren’t anywhere near as important as risk outsourcing for the executive. At that point cloud was still new and the thought was we can run our infra if we need to.