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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovmPJ01m_jk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovmPJ01m_jk You're gonna have to explain to me how that TV station in central Kyiv

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovmPJ01m_jk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovmPJ01m_jk You're gonna have to explain to me how that TV station in central Kyiv was killing Russian soldiers. Explain to me nice and slow. Or are Russian troops so incompetent that they mistake a TV tower for another target? We know where the Russian troops are, maybe 50km north of Kyiv. None of them are in downtown Kyiv yet, and they certainly weren't there on March 1st (when this video was posted). The Russian troops at the time were trying to take Hostomel Airport, a few dozen miles north of Kyiv at this time. So there's no military reason to destroy the TV station. It was clearly an attack on civilian infrastructure. (Military communications don't use TV Towers)

pydry 5y ago
It's not uncommon. It was one of NATO'S first targets in Belgrade too. “Our military leaders at NATO believe … that the Serb television is an essential instrument of Mr. Milosevic’s command and control. … It is not, in a conventional sense, therefore, a media outlet. That was a decision they made, and I did not reverse it.” - Clinton The US and NATO were lavished with praise for their part in that war.
- throwawaycities 5y ago
  > The US and NATO were lavished with praise for their part in that war. Because Slobodan Milosevic was committing genocide. If you are suggesting Putin deserves similar praise for illegally using force in Ukraine, I’d like to ask why?
- dragontamer 5y ago
  You're missing out on the key context to my central question. What was the Kyiv TV Tower broadcasting, that made it a legitimate military target?
  - pydry 5y ago
    Propaganda, presumably. Same reason Bill killed 30 employees of a Serbian TV channel and then patted himself on the back.
    - dragontamer 5y ago
      Please explain the Ukrainian propaganda to me that was deserving of this strike. Capt. America punching Hitler is propaganda. I happen to agree with it. You'll need to be specific with me. Not all propaganda is bad, and it takes particularly bad propaganda before I think that military action is required. Would you support say, hypothetical German Bombers attacking Marvel Comics over their depiction of Capt. America?
      - pydry 5y ago
        I dont think it's a legitimate target whatever kind of propaganda is pumped out. I think Bill Clinton is also a war criminal. The question is will you call him a war criminal or will you go quiet or bullshit an excuse for why it's ok when WE do it? Edit : He never did call him a war criminal.
        dragontamer 5y ago
        Then you're fine. My issue is about whataboutism in general. If you're man-enough to admit the fault of the situation, then you've proven your point.
        FpUser 5y ago
        >"My issue is about whataboutism in general." Whataboutism will disappear as soon as the perpetrators get punished. If a country does some awful things and walks away free and the world looks the other way it sets the example for others.
        dragontamer 5y ago
        I'm fine with the practice if it's 'what about x? We should fix X'. But a lot of Russian propaganda online is 'what about X? Let's ignore both X and Y'. It's just a distraction and fails to address the core point.
- rospaya 5y ago
  Ironically also one of the first targets Serbs bombed in Zagreb during the previous war.
ipaddr 5y ago
If you don't understand the need to either take out tv stations and broadcast towers you really don't understand what a modern war is about. TV/radio controlled by the other side spread information against your interests. Taking over this is step 1. Controlling electrical power stations and resources are next.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  This is a Moscow designed structure and the tallest structure in all of Ukraine (and was the tallest in the world until 2012). There's more cultural significance to this object than there is practical military value. The broadcasts are being filmed on other buildings inside the city. The actual tower itself is a big landmark.
Someone 5y ago
I think that’s not the best of examples. Some people, in some circumstances, may consider taking out civilian communications equipment a valid target in war. An example is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_the_Radio_Television_of_Serbia_headquarters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_the_Radio_Tele..., where there’s no agreement on whether that bombing in any form could have been justified.
vogre 5y ago
If you watch carefully, you will notice that the strike lands near the tower, leaving it intact. If you watch more carefully, you'll see a giant movie-like explosion which indicates that there was something very flammable in this area. Storage of gas? Some ammunition?
- mcphage 5y ago
  > which indicates that there was something very flammable in this area For a brief period of time, the warhead of a missile.
vogre 5y ago
And actually all these cases just show us how dumb is war propaganda. No, the TV tower wasn't hit on this video, you can really see it with your eyes. The shopping mall destroyed by Kinzhal was in fact the military base/ammunition store, and some local guy made a photos of GRADs in that base(he was caught and god knows what they did to him). The guys on Zmeiny Island never said "Fuck you, Russian warship" and never died, they just gave up. But most of this propaganda is easily swallowed by public.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rocket_strike_on_Kyiv_TV_Tower,_1_March_2022.webm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rocket_strike_on_Kyiv_TV_... But sure, propaganda. The "tower was never hit", etc. etc. There's one side on this discussion who is consistently lying about the events, and its not the "Kyiv TV Tower was attacked" people.
  - vogre 5y ago
    lol, it's the same strike. Watch carefully. Just the angle is different. upd: you would see the tower itself shackles somehow if it was hit. It don't upd2: so who is lying on events picking angles?
    - dragontamer 5y ago
      Your mental gymnastics remind me of the 9/11 Truthers who wouldn't believe that the Twin Tower collapsed. The video is self evident and your discussion points do not meet my expectation of reasonable discussion.
      - vogre 5y ago
        If this TV tower is hit, is there any photo of damaged/fallen tower? I have not found one. Only photos/videos with explosion behind the tower.
tablespoon 5y ago
> You're gonna have to explain to me how that TV station in central Kyiv was killing Russian soldiers. Explain to me nice and slow. Or are Russian troops so incompetent that they mistake a TV tower for another target? It was a ... a ... a Nazi transformer mecha in stealth mode! /s

pydry 5y ago

It's not uncommon. It was one of NATO'S first targets in Belgrade too. “Our military leaders at NATO believe … that the Serb television is an essential instrument of Mr. Milosevic’s command and control. … It is not, in a conventional sense, therefore, a media outlet. That was a decision they made, and I did not reverse it.” - Clinton The US and NATO were lavished with praise for their part in that war.

throwawaycities 5y ago
> The US and NATO were lavished with praise for their part in that war. Because Slobodan Milosevic was committing genocide. If you are suggesting Putin deserves similar praise for illegally using force in Ukraine, I’d like to ask why?
dragontamer 5y ago
You're missing out on the key context to my central question. What was the Kyiv TV Tower broadcasting, that made it a legitimate military target?
- pydry 5y ago
  Propaganda, presumably. Same reason Bill killed 30 employees of a Serbian TV channel and then patted himself on the back.
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    Please explain the Ukrainian propaganda to me that was deserving of this strike. Capt. America punching Hitler is propaganda. I happen to agree with it. You'll need to be specific with me. Not all propaganda is bad, and it takes particularly bad propaganda before I think that military action is required. Would you support say, hypothetical German Bombers attacking Marvel Comics over their depiction of Capt. America?
    - pydry 5y ago
      I dont think it's a legitimate target whatever kind of propaganda is pumped out. I think Bill Clinton is also a war criminal. The question is will you call him a war criminal or will you go quiet or bullshit an excuse for why it's ok when WE do it? Edit : He never did call him a war criminal.
      - dragontamer 5y ago
        Then you're fine. My issue is about whataboutism in general. If you're man-enough to admit the fault of the situation, then you've proven your point.
        FpUser 5y ago
        >"My issue is about whataboutism in general." Whataboutism will disappear as soon as the perpetrators get punished. If a country does some awful things and walks away free and the world looks the other way it sets the example for others.
        dragontamer 5y ago
        I'm fine with the practice if it's 'what about x? We should fix X'. But a lot of Russian propaganda online is 'what about X? Let's ignore both X and Y'. It's just a distraction and fails to address the core point.
rospaya 5y ago
Ironically also one of the first targets Serbs bombed in Zagreb during the previous war.

ipaddr 5y ago

If you don't understand the need to either take out tv stations and broadcast towers you really don't understand what a modern war is about. TV/radio controlled by the other side spread information against your interests. Taking over this is step 1. Controlling electrical power stations and resources are next.

dragontamer 5y ago
This is a Moscow designed structure and the tallest structure in all of Ukraine (and was the tallest in the world until 2012). There's more cultural significance to this object than there is practical military value. The broadcasts are being filmed on other buildings inside the city. The actual tower itself is a big landmark.

Someone 5y ago

I think that’s not the best of examples. Some people, in some circumstances, may consider taking out civilian communications equipment a valid target in war. An example is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_the_Radio_Television_of_Serbia_headquarters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_the_Radio_Tele..., where there’s no agreement on whether that bombing in any form could have been justified.

vogre 5y ago

If you watch carefully, you will notice that the strike lands near the tower, leaving it intact. If you watch more carefully, you'll see a giant movie-like explosion which indicates that there was something very flammable in this area. Storage of gas? Some ammunition?

mcphage 5y ago
> which indicates that there was something very flammable in this area For a brief period of time, the warhead of a missile.

vogre 5y ago

And actually all these cases just show us how dumb is war propaganda. No, the TV tower wasn't hit on this video, you can really see it with your eyes. The shopping mall destroyed by Kinzhal was in fact the military base/ammunition store, and some local guy made a photos of GRADs in that base(he was caught and god knows what they did to him). The guys on Zmeiny Island never said "Fuck you, Russian warship" and never died, they just gave up. But most of this propaganda is easily swallowed by public.

dragontamer 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rocket_strike_on_Kyiv_TV_Tower,_1_March_2022.webm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rocket_strike_on_Kyiv_TV_... But sure, propaganda. The "tower was never hit", etc. etc. There's one side on this discussion who is consistently lying about the events, and its not the "Kyiv TV Tower was attacked" people.
- vogre 5y ago
  lol, it's the same strike. Watch carefully. Just the angle is different. upd: you would see the tower itself shackles somehow if it was hit. It don't upd2: so who is lying on events picking angles?
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    Your mental gymnastics remind me of the 9/11 Truthers who wouldn't believe that the Twin Tower collapsed. The video is self evident and your discussion points do not meet my expectation of reasonable discussion.
    - vogre 5y ago
      If this TV tower is hit, is there any photo of damaged/fallen tower? I have not found one. Only photos/videos with explosion behind the tower.

tablespoon 5y ago

> You're gonna have to explain to me how that TV station in central Kyiv was killing Russian soldiers. Explain to me nice and slow. Or are Russian troops so incompetent that they mistake a TV tower for another target? It was a ... a ... a Nazi transformer mecha in stealth mode! /s