3 ms·

I think it's increasingly hard to live without a phone or without a smartphone. Many businesses seem to be eschewing web access in favour of using an app. The

by Gunax 5y ago

I think it's increasingly hard to live without a phone or without a smartphone. Many businesses seem to be eschewing web access in favour of using an app. The restaurant I went to yesterday had it's menu only available by QR code. You cannot book an Uber. You cannot date on Tinder. You cannot buy food on too good to go. You cannot even find some podcasts because they stopped running an RSS feed. But maybe this is just the march of technology. I had no complaints when things started moving to the web, but I guess that's because I liked the web. I suppose that's just me being hypocritical.

Beltalowda 5y ago
I'm moving in to a new apartment tomorrow and it comes with this "app" to communicate with your neighbours. Of course, it's just an app and not a site. I installed it on Android emulator just to see what it's like; the entire thing is basically just a web forum, like what we had 20 years ago, except of course it's worse. You can't search (on a page with ^F, or in general), you can't adjust its tiny font size, it only runs on iOS/Android, etc. I must sound like an old man, but I don't see it as anything other than reinventing 20-year old tech except "as an app" and shittier. I think it's very different from the move to the web; in spite of common complaints about it on HN, it really brought cross-platform capabilities to the world. Yes, there's issues with Chrome's dominance, but have you tried running on Linux or NetBSD in 2000? It was all fun and games until someone sent you a .doc file, or until you had to do your taxes, or until you wanted to do a million other things that were "Windows-only". With the web the only thing stopping anyone from creating a new environment that works for a lot of common every-day things is just putting in the work to implement an OS + browser. Yes, this is not easy, but also not undoable (and not as hard as sometimes claimed, IMO), and compared to proprietary protocols and formats of the 90s it's a huge improvement. But with all this mobile stuff now we're back to proprietary protocols and formats that only work on proprietary systems. I don't think it's comparable at all. If anything, it's the reverse, and also worse than the 90s because PCs are "open" platforms where you can install any OS you want, which is not the case with the vast majority of mobile phones, and the "app store" distribution model makes it even worse. I'm not necessarily against smartphones as a concept, but the current implementations are a huge regression in many ways.
nonrandomstring 5y ago
I don't mean to pick on you but this is a common platitude and fallacy: > I think it's increasingly hard to live without a phone or without a smartphone. Maybe for you, for the set of choices you have made in life. When I see this sentiment I smile a little because I have a Nokia dumb phone that I use only a few times per week. The less I use my phone the easier life becomes, quite literally. To address the examples you give; In my town there are amazing restaurants all along the beach where we pay cash, know the waiters by name, you can still go out safely and date people you meet, and we have record shops that sell vinyl and CDs. Sometimes I like to go for days without a mobile phone at all. (And in case you're wondering, my life is filled with many heavy responsibilities that I manage in other ways) With the greatest respect, I see a fair few HN comments that speak to parochial lifestyles, with sweeping statements like: Everybody does this Nobody does that now What people want is this <thing> is inevitable <other thing> is ubiquitous now Sweeping statements generalised from limited personal experience and quite narrow horizons make me think "That's will make these people consumers not innovators. They accept what they are given". > But maybe this is just the march of technology. It's not the "march" Armies and ants march. It's the "flowering" or diversification of technology. Some people are using technology in different ways than others. Which is what we'd hope for and expect from a liberal democracy, right? If we wanted everybody to do the same, think the same, and buy the same, we'd vote for communism surely? Or are some digital technologies ushering in a form of communism on the sly?
- Gunax 5y ago
  No, I don't think youre picking on me at all. It's definitely possible to go without those things. No one needs to use Uber or Tinder. But I guess it feels like you're just not interested or need those. Going without rideshare is definitely possible, but it's another option one is giving up by foregoing a phone.
  - nonrandomstring 5y ago
    It could be age and lifestyle differences - I'm a 50+ father, big town (small city) from England, I have an image of you in mind as a somewhat younger city dweller Gunax. But regardless such differences, I've a theory that what social media has done online, causing polarisation or rather partition into silos, smartphones (and the app service culture of some businesses) are doing to us in reality. After making a conscious effort to rid myself of smartphones (or rather not get sucked into dependency) 10 years ago, the rest fell into place. What I mean is, cause and effect wise, to some extent things like my choice of restaurants to the company I keep, and working habits, might just be determined by my horizons as a non-user. Similarly perhaps for you, the world you see is determined by the lens (a 6 inch square) you look through, and the more you stay there the more it feels like "life would be harder without a phone". Factoring out any value judgements, in this way technology is polarising society. respects
thesuitonym 5y ago
>The restaurant I went to yesterday had it's menu only available by QR code. If I went to a restaurant like this I'd leave. I've been to places that had QR codes, but they also had menus available. This is fine. >You cannot book an Uber. But you can still call a taxi. >You cannot date on Tinder. But you can still date. >You cannot buy food on too good to go. But you can still buy food regularly. >You cannot even find some podcasts because they stopped running an RSS feed. But you can still listen to the overwhelming majority of podcasts. Nothing you mentioned seems hard to live without. In fact, I already live completely without anything you mentioned.
helloworld11 5y ago
>Many businesses seem to be eschewing web access in favour of using an app. I suspect that a basic but very interesting to them reason for this is simply that they want to mine the shit out of your personal information to any extent possible. It's shitty, dishonest, intrusive but very real. I sometimes use paypal and though it works just fine on a desktop or laptop, or a browser inside my phone, the scummy company itself basically forces the option of downloading the app on you at every single goddam turn, with every non-app login and any time you transfer funds. How badly they'd like to have that sweet phone permissions access.

by Gunax 5y ago

Beltalowda 5y ago

I'm moving in to a new apartment tomorrow and it comes with this "app" to communicate with your neighbours. Of course, it's just an app and not a site. I installed it on Android emulator just to see what it's like; the entire thing is basically just a web forum, like what we had 20 years ago, except of course it's worse. You can't search (on a page with ^F, or in general), you can't adjust its tiny font size, it only runs on iOS/Android, etc. I must sound like an old man, but I don't see it as anything other than reinventing 20-year old tech except "as an app" and shittier. I think it's very different from the move to the web; in spite of common complaints about it on HN, it really brought cross-platform capabilities to the world. Yes, there's issues with Chrome's dominance, but have you tried running on Linux or NetBSD in 2000? It was all fun and games until someone sent you a .doc file, or until you had to do your taxes, or until you wanted to do a million other things that were "Windows-only". With the web the only thing stopping anyone from creating a new environment that works for a lot of common every-day things is just putting in the work to implement an OS + browser. Yes, this is not easy, but also not undoable (and not as hard as sometimes claimed, IMO), and compared to proprietary protocols and formats of the 90s it's a huge improvement. But with all this mobile stuff now we're back to proprietary protocols and formats that only work on proprietary systems. I don't think it's comparable at all. If anything, it's the reverse, and also worse than the 90s because PCs are "open" platforms where you can install any OS you want, which is not the case with the vast majority of mobile phones, and the "app store" distribution model makes it even worse. I'm not necessarily against smartphones as a concept, but the current implementations are a huge regression in many ways.

nonrandomstring 5y ago

I don't mean to pick on you but this is a common platitude and fallacy: > I think it's increasingly hard to live without a phone or without a smartphone. Maybe for you, for the set of choices you have made in life. When I see this sentiment I smile a little because I have a Nokia dumb phone that I use only a few times per week. The less I use my phone the easier life becomes, quite literally. To address the examples you give; In my town there are amazing restaurants all along the beach where we pay cash, know the waiters by name, you can still go out safely and date people you meet, and we have record shops that sell vinyl and CDs. Sometimes I like to go for days without a mobile phone at all. (And in case you're wondering, my life is filled with many heavy responsibilities that I manage in other ways) With the greatest respect, I see a fair few HN comments that speak to parochial lifestyles, with sweeping statements like: Everybody does this Nobody does that now What people want is this <thing> is inevitable <other thing> is ubiquitous now Sweeping statements generalised from limited personal experience and quite narrow horizons make me think "That's will make these people consumers not innovators. They accept what they are given". > But maybe this is just the march of technology. It's not the "march" Armies and ants march. It's the "flowering" or diversification of technology. Some people are using technology in different ways than others. Which is what we'd hope for and expect from a liberal democracy, right? If we wanted everybody to do the same, think the same, and buy the same, we'd vote for communism surely? Or are some digital technologies ushering in a form of communism on the sly?

Gunax 5y ago
No, I don't think youre picking on me at all. It's definitely possible to go without those things. No one needs to use Uber or Tinder. But I guess it feels like you're just not interested or need those. Going without rideshare is definitely possible, but it's another option one is giving up by foregoing a phone.
- nonrandomstring 5y ago
  It could be age and lifestyle differences - I'm a 50+ father, big town (small city) from England, I have an image of you in mind as a somewhat younger city dweller Gunax. But regardless such differences, I've a theory that what social media has done online, causing polarisation or rather partition into silos, smartphones (and the app service culture of some businesses) are doing to us in reality. After making a conscious effort to rid myself of smartphones (or rather not get sucked into dependency) 10 years ago, the rest fell into place. What I mean is, cause and effect wise, to some extent things like my choice of restaurants to the company I keep, and working habits, might just be determined by my horizons as a non-user. Similarly perhaps for you, the world you see is determined by the lens (a 6 inch square) you look through, and the more you stay there the more it feels like "life would be harder without a phone". Factoring out any value judgements, in this way technology is polarising society. respects

thesuitonym 5y ago

>The restaurant I went to yesterday had it's menu only available by QR code. If I went to a restaurant like this I'd leave. I've been to places that had QR codes, but they also had menus available. This is fine. >You cannot book an Uber. But you can still call a taxi. >You cannot date on Tinder. But you can still date. >You cannot buy food on too good to go. But you can still buy food regularly. >You cannot even find some podcasts because they stopped running an RSS feed. But you can still listen to the overwhelming majority of podcasts. Nothing you mentioned seems hard to live without. In fact, I already live completely without anything you mentioned.

helloworld11 5y ago

>Many businesses seem to be eschewing web access in favour of using an app. I suspect that a basic but very interesting to them reason for this is simply that they want to mine the shit out of your personal information to any extent possible. It's shitty, dishonest, intrusive but very real. I sometimes use paypal and though it works just fine on a desktop or laptop, or a browser inside my phone, the scummy company itself basically forces the option of downloading the app on you at every single goddam turn, with every non-app login and any time you transfer funds. How badly they'd like to have that sweet phone permissions access.