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Everyone loves to bring up beatsaber when discussing the future of VR but beat saber is so carefully designed to avoid its pitfalls. You don't move more than a

Everyone loves to bring up beatsaber when discussing the future of VR but beat saber is so carefully designed to avoid its pitfalls. You don't move more than a few feet irl or in game. Everything you need to see is in front of you. You have infinitely light weapons with no resistance. Graphics is not the problem. It's the interface.

ipaddr 5y ago
That's how all 80s and 90s games were carefully designed with limited memory/cpu. They designed to avoid those limitations by limiting play or encouraging other actions.
- spywaregorilla 5y ago
  Memory limits weren't fundamental problems with video games. They were temporary limitations. My point is not that you cannot make fun games in VR. you can, and beat saber is very fun. But you can only have so many beat sabers.
  - mmcgaha 5y ago
    I love beat saber, but I feel like it is VR at the space invaders stage. I think in the next ten years we will see the platformer and beat-um-up stage games; I just don't have the imagination to predict what they will be like.
  - ipaddr 5y ago
    Memory limits are still problems on my c64 but clever people came up with ways around like[geos windows before windows) or There is a guy who appears on here powering his website off a c64. Whatever limits vr creates there are people who can work within those limits. The problem is so fewer developers are making indie vr because it is locked down and expensive.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  One of the giant limitations for VR is physical playing space. Memory and processor can always get better, faster, and cheaper, but I don't see how available playing space is going to improve in the future.
  - BuckRogers 5y ago
    It definitely beats me sitting in this char for playing space. I had a Quest 2 and I can say the playable space is pretty large, more than enough, and I walked away from the experience feeling that it was absolutely profound. I haven't had such a game changing experience since I bought my Diamond Monster 3D (3dfx Vooodoo 4MB). It's not going to be for everyone. Games today aren't either. Some people just don't like gaming, reading, VR, sitcoms, etc.
  - ehnto 5y ago
    I don't think I'd really want to be running around my living room anyway, too dangerous. I'd rather see improvements made to controller locomotion in VR. Even if all experiences were seated I think it's still a huge canvas, beatsaber is a very basic game even in respect to other VR games.
wiz21c 5y ago
What about Elite Dangerous ? Anyone played ? I heard it was real good on VR.
- spywaregorilla 5y ago
  Haven't played it but at a glance its a cockpit game for VR. So again, no moving, no local physics interactions that the players hands have to deal with. Looks pretty cool. But when people think vr, and they look at the movies, they're thinking about games where you are a person in a place that feels alive.
  - tomc1985 5y ago
    Funny enough, they just added a whole bunch of FPS style content, and it is locked out of VR last I checked.
  - ehnto 5y ago
    Then they're kind of mistaken I guess. Even in something like Ready Player One, that is simply not how the VR tech would actually work. Haptic suits, running treadmills, full body tracking and VR headsets all exist. They do not feel the way they're portrayed in scifi, and never will.
- shadowgovt 5y ago
  As a seated experience (in a spaceship, where my Star Trek fantasy training has taught my brain, oddly enough, that motion in space should involve no feeling the acceleration forces), it's really quite good. Night-and-day from the same experience mouse-and-keyboard or HOTAS. The game itself, sadly, doesn't hold my attention for very long, but I think the VR UI is nearly ideal for it.
- munk-a 5y ago
  Elite Dangerous VR almost requires something like Voice Attack but if you set it up like that I think it's immensely immersive - I've always had issues with the gameplay itself though so it's still not completely my cup of tea. I personally want a space freighter game where I'm drifting between breaktaking vistas - or an exploration game where I'm probing the edges of civilization - Elite Dangerous allows both of these to an extent, but it's strongly focused on dog fighting mechanically.
munk-a 5y ago
> You don't move more than a few feet irl or in game. Maybe that's the real future of VR? I enjoyed Half Life Alyx as it was a really polished feeling VR shooter but trying to move in that game was always a janky experience - I think VR exploration when things are peaceful is interesting and fun but, since you're never going to be able to freely navigate a scene by walking around alone it'll always be quite immersion breaking. I'd be more excited to see something like a mech warrior game with a navigable bridge than a COD style shooter - if you design the setting around having a fixed limited environment you can freely move around in in VR that you then move around in a larger environment... I think that's the sweet spot for VR for the foreseeable future.
wlesieutre 5y ago
Everything is designed around its own pitfalls. Books, podcasts, movies, television shows, flatscreen video games, they all have their own strengths and weaknesses. When a movie comes along that does an astounding job of playing to cinema's strength, people are going to bring it up as an example of a good movie. Beat Saber is the same. Which isn't to say all games have to be designed strictly around VR's strengths, there are games that exist in both formats, and sometimes it comes out better than the original version (Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes, Super Hot). Other times it's just ok because the game design doesn't translate as well to VR (Skyrim, Borderlands). If what you're hoping for is mainstream AAA titles to get adapted into VR and achieve millions of sales, then yes I think you'll be disappointed. But Beat Saber isn't the only opportunity to be thoughtful about how VR interfaces work. I doubt I'd have ever bought a minigolf game to play on a TV, but Walkabout Mini Golf is relaxing and a lot of fun. On the shooter side of things, you have games like Half-Life: Alyx or Hyper Dash. Puzzling Places lets you assemble 3D puzzles of scanned real world environments. Tea For God takes a limited play area and carefully designs a continuous level that feels boundless as you walk freely though it. We're not going to have Matrix-like VR interactions any time soon where you swing a sword and your hands are physically stopped when your opponent blocks it. But I wouldn't look at that and say "No way this goes anywhere, the pinnacle of game design is the limitless interface of two thumb sticks, four buttons, a D-pad, and a pair of bumpers/triggers."
- oneoff786 5y ago
  > Everything is designed around its own pitfalls. This is true, but it’s also true that most things don’t claim to be major paradigm shifts and “the future”. Designing VR around these limits won’t satisfy people who have been promised ready player one. It’s a gimmick with some good potential, but it’s just a gimmick.

ipaddr 5y ago

That's how all 80s and 90s games were carefully designed with limited memory/cpu. They designed to avoid those limitations by limiting play or encouraging other actions.

spywaregorilla 5y ago
Memory limits weren't fundamental problems with video games. They were temporary limitations. My point is not that you cannot make fun games in VR. you can, and beat saber is very fun. But you can only have so many beat sabers.
- mmcgaha 5y ago
  I love beat saber, but I feel like it is VR at the space invaders stage. I think in the next ten years we will see the platformer and beat-um-up stage games; I just don't have the imagination to predict what they will be like.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  Memory limits are still problems on my c64 but clever people came up with ways around like[geos windows before windows) or There is a guy who appears on here powering his website off a c64. Whatever limits vr creates there are people who can work within those limits. The problem is so fewer developers are making indie vr because it is locked down and expensive.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
One of the giant limitations for VR is physical playing space. Memory and processor can always get better, faster, and cheaper, but I don't see how available playing space is going to improve in the future.
- BuckRogers 5y ago
  It definitely beats me sitting in this char for playing space. I had a Quest 2 and I can say the playable space is pretty large, more than enough, and I walked away from the experience feeling that it was absolutely profound. I haven't had such a game changing experience since I bought my Diamond Monster 3D (3dfx Vooodoo 4MB). It's not going to be for everyone. Games today aren't either. Some people just don't like gaming, reading, VR, sitcoms, etc.
- ehnto 5y ago
  I don't think I'd really want to be running around my living room anyway, too dangerous. I'd rather see improvements made to controller locomotion in VR. Even if all experiences were seated I think it's still a huge canvas, beatsaber is a very basic game even in respect to other VR games.

wiz21c 5y ago

What about Elite Dangerous ? Anyone played ? I heard it was real good on VR.

spywaregorilla 5y ago
Haven't played it but at a glance its a cockpit game for VR. So again, no moving, no local physics interactions that the players hands have to deal with. Looks pretty cool. But when people think vr, and they look at the movies, they're thinking about games where you are a person in a place that feels alive.
- tomc1985 5y ago
  Funny enough, they just added a whole bunch of FPS style content, and it is locked out of VR last I checked.
- ehnto 5y ago
  Then they're kind of mistaken I guess. Even in something like Ready Player One, that is simply not how the VR tech would actually work. Haptic suits, running treadmills, full body tracking and VR headsets all exist. They do not feel the way they're portrayed in scifi, and never will.
shadowgovt 5y ago
As a seated experience (in a spaceship, where my Star Trek fantasy training has taught my brain, oddly enough, that motion in space should involve no feeling the acceleration forces), it's really quite good. Night-and-day from the same experience mouse-and-keyboard or HOTAS. The game itself, sadly, doesn't hold my attention for very long, but I think the VR UI is nearly ideal for it.
munk-a 5y ago
Elite Dangerous VR almost requires something like Voice Attack but if you set it up like that I think it's immensely immersive - I've always had issues with the gameplay itself though so it's still not completely my cup of tea. I personally want a space freighter game where I'm drifting between breaktaking vistas - or an exploration game where I'm probing the edges of civilization - Elite Dangerous allows both of these to an extent, but it's strongly focused on dog fighting mechanically.

munk-a 5y ago

> You don't move more than a few feet irl or in game. Maybe that's the real future of VR? I enjoyed Half Life Alyx as it was a really polished feeling VR shooter but trying to move in that game was always a janky experience - I think VR exploration when things are peaceful is interesting and fun but, since you're never going to be able to freely navigate a scene by walking around alone it'll always be quite immersion breaking. I'd be more excited to see something like a mech warrior game with a navigable bridge than a COD style shooter - if you design the setting around having a fixed limited environment you can freely move around in in VR that you then move around in a larger environment... I think that's the sweet spot for VR for the foreseeable future.

wlesieutre 5y ago

Everything is designed around its own pitfalls. Books, podcasts, movies, television shows, flatscreen video games, they all have their own strengths and weaknesses. When a movie comes along that does an astounding job of playing to cinema's strength, people are going to bring it up as an example of a good movie. Beat Saber is the same. Which isn't to say all games have to be designed strictly around VR's strengths, there are games that exist in both formats, and sometimes it comes out better than the original version (Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes, Super Hot). Other times it's just ok because the game design doesn't translate as well to VR (Skyrim, Borderlands). If what you're hoping for is mainstream AAA titles to get adapted into VR and achieve millions of sales, then yes I think you'll be disappointed. But Beat Saber isn't the only opportunity to be thoughtful about how VR interfaces work. I doubt I'd have ever bought a minigolf game to play on a TV, but Walkabout Mini Golf is relaxing and a lot of fun. On the shooter side of things, you have games like Half-Life: Alyx or Hyper Dash. Puzzling Places lets you assemble 3D puzzles of scanned real world environments. Tea For God takes a limited play area and carefully designs a continuous level that feels boundless as you walk freely though it. We're not going to have Matrix-like VR interactions any time soon where you swing a sword and your hands are physically stopped when your opponent blocks it. But I wouldn't look at that and say "No way this goes anywhere, the pinnacle of game design is the limitless interface of two thumb sticks, four buttons, a D-pad, and a pair of bumpers/triggers."

oneoff786 5y ago
> Everything is designed around its own pitfalls. This is true, but it’s also true that most things don’t claim to be major paradigm shifts and “the future”. Designing VR around these limits won’t satisfy people who have been promised ready player one. It’s a gimmick with some good potential, but it’s just a gimmick.