4 ms·

Let's go with the false equivalence first. The MSM has not only been wrong about many things in the past, they have actively supported egregious crimes from the

by spupe 5y ago

Let's go with the false equivalence first. The MSM has not only been wrong about many things in the past, they have actively supported egregious crimes from the US administration. It's not only Judith Miller, they were all completely and utterly wrong about Iraq's WMDs, with disastrous consequences. Since you brought up Russia, the NYT and friends have consistently lied about the "Russiagate" events, including key elements of this narrative. Taibbi was one of the very few journalists with the courage to expose this for what it is. In the present war, yes, he was wrong that Russia would not go to war - an opinion shared by a majority of people at that time, by the way - and admitted so less than a week after the war started. These "mistakes" are not even remotely comparable. As for your first statement, you will find that yes, every public figure has some dirt on them, if only because the definition of dirt keeps changing. For example, the comments made by Taibbi when he lived in Russia ~23 years ago~ are reflective of what the culture at the time found acceptable to say. Cancel culture is so obnoxious because it is used for hit jobs exactly like the one you are presenting here: find one or two events from someone's past and use that to close your ears to whatever they have to say at present, no matter how valid. Throw in some demands for them to be fired as well, because why not. Oh, and you have no way to atone for your supposed sins; even if you apologize you are tainted forever. It's time we fight back against this idiocy.

tootie 5y ago
"The MSM" isn't really a single entity, but it's thousand and thousands of journalists. How many get cancelled for mistakes or behavior? Like 0.01%? And how often does a major outlet really report misinformation? Very rarely. Media attacking media gets big headlines, but in raw numbers it's really an insignificant number. And things like "Russiagate" are made up by detractors. No respectable journalists reported anything untrue. The facts of the Russian involvement in the 2016 and Trump's relationship to it were never embellished. The fact that there isn't a criminal case represents the gap in admissible evidence and prosecutorial will. The facts are well established. Taibbi's life's work would fill one weekday edition of the NY Times and yet he blew the biggest story of his lifetime. And his behavior 23 years ago was not ever acceptable. And that doesn't mean he is banished from living a life or personal freedom, but I would not trust a single word he writes.
- spupe 5y ago
  Too bad, because he has a great account of how the Russiagate scandal was overblown by the media: https://taibbi.substack.com/p/russiagate-is-wmd-times-a-million?s=r https://taibbi.substack.com/p/russiagate-is-wmd-times-a-mill... You could choose to look at it critically and decide for yourself what you believe in. It is a factual, point-by-point destruction of your claim above. Zero percent of it hinges on how perfect Taibbi as a person is, or was 20 years ago. Your ideological purity, or whatever it is you think you are standing for here, serves only to close your mind.
  - tootie 5y ago
    Wow, that has aged poorly. All of the stories he insists should be walked back have been confirmed. Manafort and Flynn were both pardoned by Trump despite definitely having communication with Russian agents and lying about it. Roger Stone was also convicted for his role in coordinating the DNC email release with GRU via WikiLeaks. Russian agents visited Trump Tower to sell the campaign emails. Trump lied about his business interests in Russia. And it's absolutely journalistic malpractice to say that Mueller declined to issue indictments when he very specifically said he did not evaluate criminal charges at all because he didn't believe he had the authority. That is just a talking point straight from Bill Barr. The impeachment trial laid out the details of the Trump campaigns relationships with Russia. No, Trump wasn't taking direct orders from Putin. That was never even suggested. All the MSM stories described back channels, influence, complimentary strategies and that was all true. Trump and the right-wing media upgraded the accusations to a level they knew could never be proven in order to reset expectations to something unattainable. Then obstructed every investigation, waited for convictions on obstruction charges and issued pardons so no one could ever be forced to give up details. Taibbi is framing the story exactly how Trump wants it framed and ignoring the reality. Nothing he references in the MSM reporting was actually incorrect. The hype around what the result of this reporting would result in was never promised by any of the legitimate reporting. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-04-01/no-russiagate-isn-t-this-generation-s-wmd https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-04-01/no-rus... EDIT: Bonus content, here is Taibbi casting doubt on the Ukrainegate whistleblower based purely on his personal bias about what a whistleblower should look like. Again, he was carrying water for Trump and was 100% incorrect in his agenda-driven reporting: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/whistleblower-ukraine-trump-impeach-cia-spying-895529/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/w...

by spupe 5y ago

tootie 5y ago

"The MSM" isn't really a single entity, but it's thousand and thousands of journalists. How many get cancelled for mistakes or behavior? Like 0.01%? And how often does a major outlet really report misinformation? Very rarely. Media attacking media gets big headlines, but in raw numbers it's really an insignificant number. And things like "Russiagate" are made up by detractors. No respectable journalists reported anything untrue. The facts of the Russian involvement in the 2016 and Trump's relationship to it were never embellished. The fact that there isn't a criminal case represents the gap in admissible evidence and prosecutorial will. The facts are well established. Taibbi's life's work would fill one weekday edition of the NY Times and yet he blew the biggest story of his lifetime. And his behavior 23 years ago was not ever acceptable. And that doesn't mean he is banished from living a life or personal freedom, but I would not trust a single word he writes.

spupe 5y ago
Too bad, because he has a great account of how the Russiagate scandal was overblown by the media: https://taibbi.substack.com/p/russiagate-is-wmd-times-a-million?s=r https://taibbi.substack.com/p/russiagate-is-wmd-times-a-mill... You could choose to look at it critically and decide for yourself what you believe in. It is a factual, point-by-point destruction of your claim above. Zero percent of it hinges on how perfect Taibbi as a person is, or was 20 years ago. Your ideological purity, or whatever it is you think you are standing for here, serves only to close your mind.
- tootie 5y ago
  Wow, that has aged poorly. All of the stories he insists should be walked back have been confirmed. Manafort and Flynn were both pardoned by Trump despite definitely having communication with Russian agents and lying about it. Roger Stone was also convicted for his role in coordinating the DNC email release with GRU via WikiLeaks. Russian agents visited Trump Tower to sell the campaign emails. Trump lied about his business interests in Russia. And it's absolutely journalistic malpractice to say that Mueller declined to issue indictments when he very specifically said he did not evaluate criminal charges at all because he didn't believe he had the authority. That is just a talking point straight from Bill Barr. The impeachment trial laid out the details of the Trump campaigns relationships with Russia. No, Trump wasn't taking direct orders from Putin. That was never even suggested. All the MSM stories described back channels, influence, complimentary strategies and that was all true. Trump and the right-wing media upgraded the accusations to a level they knew could never be proven in order to reset expectations to something unattainable. Then obstructed every investigation, waited for convictions on obstruction charges and issued pardons so no one could ever be forced to give up details. Taibbi is framing the story exactly how Trump wants it framed and ignoring the reality. Nothing he references in the MSM reporting was actually incorrect. The hype around what the result of this reporting would result in was never promised by any of the legitimate reporting. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-04-01/no-russiagate-isn-t-this-generation-s-wmd https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-04-01/no-rus... EDIT: Bonus content, here is Taibbi casting doubt on the Ukrainegate whistleblower based purely on his personal bias about what a whistleblower should look like. Again, he was carrying water for Trump and was 100% incorrect in his agenda-driven reporting: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/whistleblower-ukraine-trump-impeach-cia-spying-895529/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/w...