3 ms·

The reason why games on Switch can "just work" is that the OS provides the DRM. Otherwise, we would see rootkits, spyware, or always-online requirements like th

The reason why games on Switch can "just work" is that the OS provides the DRM. Otherwise, we would see rootkits, spyware, or always-online requirements like the DRM hell that we see with Windows games. It's a trade-off, and I believe there is space for both kinds of devices. I want an unlocked Linux PC and a DRM-monopolized-by-Nintendo Switch so that I can do tinkering, when I want it, but also enjoy games without much technical fuss.

everyone 5y ago
What? I get all my games on Windows DRM free from the likes of Gog and Itch.io. If there is a game I want to play that has DRM I get a nice clean pirate copy.
- danuker 5y ago
  > nice clean pirate copy While I abhor DRM, I also am averse to the potential malware lurking in there. There may be password and credit card sniffers. I only play non-DRM and open-source games.
  - everyone 5y ago
    I trust the pirate community infinitely more than I trust any big corporation, Microsoft, EA, Steam etc. Imo it's more common for the "legit" copy of the software to have dodgy spyware and such in it, which is removed by the cracker.
    - irth 5y ago
      That corporate spyware won’t steal your credit card. I’d rather have my data stolen than money
      - danuker 5y ago
        Well, you give them the card for a free trial, then end up forgetting to cancel, and the effect is similar.
  - everyone 5y ago
    I'm curious now. I have actually never heard of malware of any kind being put into a release by a reputable scene group, cracker or repacker. Eg. Empress, Fitgirl. Does anyone have any links to instances of this happening?
    - danuker 5y ago
      I don't have an example from reputable crackers, but the could exit-scam at any point. Here's an example of malware delivered via purportedly cracked software. https://www.pcmag.com/news/ransomware-hits-research-facility-after-student-installs-pirated-software https://www.pcmag.com/news/ransomware-hits-research-facility...
      - everyone 5y ago
        Cheers for link! but there is almost zero info about the cracked program or malware, its not really a data point at all imo. Also, from the description there is, it kinda sounds like guy just googled and downloaded a random exe from internet.
- fxtentacle 5y ago
  "If there is a game I want to play that has DRM I get a nice clean pirate copy." Surely you understand that people who work in building games don't exactly like that attitude ;) So they might decide to release exclusively on Switch and not do a PC port, if pirate copies are plentiful on PC but rare on Switch. BTW, I believe most of the games I've played recently are Switch-exclusive: - Super Smash Bros. - Super Mario Odyssey - Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Wars
  - everyone 5y ago
    "Surely you understand that people who work in building games don't exactly like that attitude ;)" I am a game dev.
Epiphany21 5y ago
>The reason why games on Switch can "just work" is that the OS provides the DRM. >Otherwise, we would see rootkits, spyware, or always-online requirements like the DRM hell that we see with Windows games. None of this would be an issue if the companies just released the server-side tools and let people host and moderate their own instances of games. This is basically how the Fediverse works and it's great. People who want to be nasty go into their little corner and everyone else in another. Only problem is this would mean customers actually get to own the stuff they buy. Companies would rather you be the product.
- fxtentacle 5y ago
  I guess you're mostly talking about multiplayer games. I was talking mostly about single player games. But also, I don't quite get how a publisher could recoup $200 mio in spending on 3D assets with your "free for everyone" model.
  - Epiphany21 5y ago
    >I don't quite get how a publisher could recoup $200 mio in spending on 3D assets with your "free for everyone" model. It's not "free for everyone". It's "free to use the software you bought and paid for in any way you see fit". I call this new concept "ownership".
- quitit 5y ago
  I unfortunately can't see this working in every scenario. For a Switch it seems like a workable solution as the owner's motivation is the only controlling factor in whether or not the device stays on the secure side or the anything-goes side. (If there are loss-leading/cost changes to the hardware that is a discussion that can be addressed separately.) For a device like a phone the owner's motivations can become muted, such as by a service provider functionality requirements or an employer's desires. This is similarly where the problem comes about in the discussion about side-loading. We already know that there are many developers who wish to live on the 'nasty' side, but there is also a laziness motivation in using that side as well, it's less work for the developer. This then becomes the ever-widening hole where consumers get brought onto the 'nasty' side blindly because that's where the market is - at the same time exposing the users to all of the 'nasty' stuff that technology was originally there to protect them from.

everyone 5y ago

What? I get all my games on Windows DRM free from the likes of Gog and Itch.io. If there is a game I want to play that has DRM I get a nice clean pirate copy.

danuker 5y ago
> nice clean pirate copy While I abhor DRM, I also am averse to the potential malware lurking in there. There may be password and credit card sniffers. I only play non-DRM and open-source games.
- everyone 5y ago
  I trust the pirate community infinitely more than I trust any big corporation, Microsoft, EA, Steam etc. Imo it's more common for the "legit" copy of the software to have dodgy spyware and such in it, which is removed by the cracker.
  - irth 5y ago
    That corporate spyware won’t steal your credit card. I’d rather have my data stolen than money
    - danuker 5y ago
      Well, you give them the card for a free trial, then end up forgetting to cancel, and the effect is similar.
- everyone 5y ago
  I'm curious now. I have actually never heard of malware of any kind being put into a release by a reputable scene group, cracker or repacker. Eg. Empress, Fitgirl. Does anyone have any links to instances of this happening?
  - danuker 5y ago
    I don't have an example from reputable crackers, but the could exit-scam at any point. Here's an example of malware delivered via purportedly cracked software. https://www.pcmag.com/news/ransomware-hits-research-facility-after-student-installs-pirated-software https://www.pcmag.com/news/ransomware-hits-research-facility...
    - everyone 5y ago
      Cheers for link! but there is almost zero info about the cracked program or malware, its not really a data point at all imo. Also, from the description there is, it kinda sounds like guy just googled and downloaded a random exe from internet.
fxtentacle 5y ago
"If there is a game I want to play that has DRM I get a nice clean pirate copy." Surely you understand that people who work in building games don't exactly like that attitude ;) So they might decide to release exclusively on Switch and not do a PC port, if pirate copies are plentiful on PC but rare on Switch. BTW, I believe most of the games I've played recently are Switch-exclusive: - Super Smash Bros. - Super Mario Odyssey - Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Wars
- everyone 5y ago
  "Surely you understand that people who work in building games don't exactly like that attitude ;)" I am a game dev.

Epiphany21 5y ago

>The reason why games on Switch can "just work" is that the OS provides the DRM. >Otherwise, we would see rootkits, spyware, or always-online requirements like the DRM hell that we see with Windows games. None of this would be an issue if the companies just released the server-side tools and let people host and moderate their own instances of games. This is basically how the Fediverse works and it's great. People who want to be nasty go into their little corner and everyone else in another. Only problem is this would mean customers actually get to own the stuff they buy. Companies would rather you be the product.

fxtentacle 5y ago
I guess you're mostly talking about multiplayer games. I was talking mostly about single player games. But also, I don't quite get how a publisher could recoup $200 mio in spending on 3D assets with your "free for everyone" model.
- Epiphany21 5y ago
  >I don't quite get how a publisher could recoup $200 mio in spending on 3D assets with your "free for everyone" model. It's not "free for everyone". It's "free to use the software you bought and paid for in any way you see fit". I call this new concept "ownership".
quitit 5y ago
I unfortunately can't see this working in every scenario. For a Switch it seems like a workable solution as the owner's motivation is the only controlling factor in whether or not the device stays on the secure side or the anything-goes side. (If there are loss-leading/cost changes to the hardware that is a discussion that can be addressed separately.) For a device like a phone the owner's motivations can become muted, such as by a service provider functionality requirements or an employer's desires. This is similarly where the problem comes about in the discussion about side-loading. We already know that there are many developers who wish to live on the 'nasty' side, but there is also a laziness motivation in using that side as well, it's less work for the developer. This then becomes the ever-widening hole where consumers get brought onto the 'nasty' side blindly because that's where the market is - at the same time exposing the users to all of the 'nasty' stuff that technology was originally there to protect them from.