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Companies can only get away with this crap because consumers are so still so darn ignorant. I think most people won't accept a car that prevents you from changi

Companies can only get away with this crap because consumers are so still so darn ignorant. I think most people won't accept a car that prevents you from changing your own oil or replacing your own wiper fluid, so it always boggles my mind that so many are still buying computers that lock users out of the firmware and boot process. A Switch is just a toy anyways. Buy a different toy.

Schroedingersat 5y ago
> I think most people won't accept a car that prevents you from changing your own oil or replacing your own wiper fluid, so it always boggles my mind that so many are still buying computers that lock users out of the firmware and boot process. There are countless variations of this in cars. Changing a fuel pump or ignition control module or sometimes even disconnecting a battery activates 'anti theft' features in many cars and companies frequently use the DMCA to prevent repair and maintenance without $10k/year software licenses.
- dotancohen 5y ago
  I recently had to change the transmission in a '13 Juke. The battery was disconnected, and now three months later I still cannot use the radio. We have the placard with the unlock code, but the radio does not unlock. Had the dealer done the repair, I could probably fight with them to get the radio fixed. But with the independent shop that did the repair, whom I feel did nothing wrong, I do not want to pressure to repair the "collateral damage" that really isn't their fault.
fxtentacle 5y ago
The reason why games on Switch can "just work" is that the OS provides the DRM. Otherwise, we would see rootkits, spyware, or always-online requirements like the DRM hell that we see with Windows games. It's a trade-off, and I believe there is space for both kinds of devices. I want an unlocked Linux PC and a DRM-monopolized-by-Nintendo Switch so that I can do tinkering, when I want it, but also enjoy games without much technical fuss.
- everyone 5y ago
  What? I get all my games on Windows DRM free from the likes of Gog and Itch.io. If there is a game I want to play that has DRM I get a nice clean pirate copy.
  - danuker 5y ago
    > nice clean pirate copy While I abhor DRM, I also am averse to the potential malware lurking in there. There may be password and credit card sniffers. I only play non-DRM and open-source games.
    - everyone 5y ago
      I trust the pirate community infinitely more than I trust any big corporation, Microsoft, EA, Steam etc. Imo it's more common for the "legit" copy of the software to have dodgy spyware and such in it, which is removed by the cracker.
      - irth 5y ago
        That corporate spyware won’t steal your credit card. I’d rather have my data stolen than money
        danuker 5y ago
        Well, you give them the card for a free trial, then end up forgetting to cancel, and the effect is similar.
    - everyone 5y ago
      I'm curious now. I have actually never heard of malware of any kind being put into a release by a reputable scene group, cracker or repacker. Eg. Empress, Fitgirl. Does anyone have any links to instances of this happening?
      - danuker 5y ago
chrisan 5y ago
Not all consumers are ignorant, but 99% of switch's consumers don't even care. I bought the toy because I enjoy Zelda and Mario. I've bought every Nintendo console since the NES and will likely continue to do so because of the enjoyment I get back from it. I'm not interested in modding or downgrading or whatever. If you are not looking for a toy to enjoy Nintendo only games with then get a Steam Deck or whatever else and mod to your hearts content.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
GuB-42 5y ago
Consumers but game consoles to play games made for the consoles, and as long as they can play, why should they care about firmwares and bootloaders? In fact, I know plenty of Linux kernel recompiling geeks with custom built PCs who buy locked down game consoles because sometimes, they just want to play video games, and game consoles are really good at making it hassle free. And the fact that they are locked down is not a bad thing. It actually made Nintendo's success. While other manufacturers had to deal with a flood of poor quality titles, Nintendo was able to set quality standards. As for the evil DRM, game publisher sometimes don't want to release games on open platforms (like PC) because of piracy. Your car analogy doesn't hold, you don't need to change oil and wiper fluid in your consoles, consoles are essentially no maintenance and that's another good thing about them. And in fact, the most likely maintenance operation you may have to do on the Switch is changing the battery, and it is a relatively easy operation. I don't know how long my Switch will last, but consoles tend to last a really long time for consumer electronics. Game consoles may be computers under the hood, and with hacks, you may turn them into a general purpose machines (and I have done it, it is fun). But really, they are accessories to the games. You are not "darn ignorant" because you buy a console for its intended purpose. Yes it is a toy, literally, you find it it toy stores, but why should you buy a different toy just because it may not do more than advertised?

Schroedingersat 5y ago

> I think most people won't accept a car that prevents you from changing your own oil or replacing your own wiper fluid, so it always boggles my mind that so many are still buying computers that lock users out of the firmware and boot process. There are countless variations of this in cars. Changing a fuel pump or ignition control module or sometimes even disconnecting a battery activates 'anti theft' features in many cars and companies frequently use the DMCA to prevent repair and maintenance without $10k/year software licenses.

dotancohen 5y ago
I recently had to change the transmission in a '13 Juke. The battery was disconnected, and now three months later I still cannot use the radio. We have the placard with the unlock code, but the radio does not unlock. Had the dealer done the repair, I could probably fight with them to get the radio fixed. But with the independent shop that did the repair, whom I feel did nothing wrong, I do not want to pressure to repair the "collateral damage" that really isn't their fault.

fxtentacle 5y ago

The reason why games on Switch can "just work" is that the OS provides the DRM. Otherwise, we would see rootkits, spyware, or always-online requirements like the DRM hell that we see with Windows games. It's a trade-off, and I believe there is space for both kinds of devices. I want an unlocked Linux PC and a DRM-monopolized-by-Nintendo Switch so that I can do tinkering, when I want it, but also enjoy games without much technical fuss.

everyone 5y ago
What? I get all my games on Windows DRM free from the likes of Gog and Itch.io. If there is a game I want to play that has DRM I get a nice clean pirate copy.
- danuker 5y ago
  > nice clean pirate copy While I abhor DRM, I also am averse to the potential malware lurking in there. There may be password and credit card sniffers. I only play non-DRM and open-source games.
  - everyone 5y ago
    I trust the pirate community infinitely more than I trust any big corporation, Microsoft, EA, Steam etc. Imo it's more common for the "legit" copy of the software to have dodgy spyware and such in it, which is removed by the cracker.
    - irth 5y ago
      That corporate spyware won’t steal your credit card. I’d rather have my data stolen than money
      - danuker 5y ago
        Well, you give them the card for a free trial, then end up forgetting to cancel, and the effect is similar.
  - everyone 5y ago
    I'm curious now. I have actually never heard of malware of any kind being put into a release by a reputable scene group, cracker or repacker. Eg. Empress, Fitgirl. Does anyone have any links to instances of this happening?
    - danuker 5y ago

chrisan 5y ago

Not all consumers are ignorant, but 99% of switch's consumers don't even care. I bought the toy because I enjoy Zelda and Mario. I've bought every Nintendo console since the NES and will likely continue to do so because of the enjoyment I get back from it. I'm not interested in modding or downgrading or whatever. If you are not looking for a toy to enjoy Nintendo only games with then get a Steam Deck or whatever else and mod to your hearts content.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

GuB-42 5y ago

Consumers but game consoles to play games made for the consoles, and as long as they can play, why should they care about firmwares and bootloaders? In fact, I know plenty of Linux kernel recompiling geeks with custom built PCs who buy locked down game consoles because sometimes, they just want to play video games, and game consoles are really good at making it hassle free. And the fact that they are locked down is not a bad thing. It actually made Nintendo's success. While other manufacturers had to deal with a flood of poor quality titles, Nintendo was able to set quality standards. As for the evil DRM, game publisher sometimes don't want to release games on open platforms (like PC) because of piracy. Your car analogy doesn't hold, you don't need to change oil and wiper fluid in your consoles, consoles are essentially no maintenance and that's another good thing about them. And in fact, the most likely maintenance operation you may have to do on the Switch is changing the battery, and it is a relatively easy operation. I don't know how long my Switch will last, but consoles tend to last a really long time for consumer electronics. Game consoles may be computers under the hood, and with hacks, you may turn them into a general purpose machines (and I have done it, it is fun). But really, they are accessories to the games. You are not "darn ignorant" because you buy a console for its intended purpose. Yes it is a toy, literally, you find it it toy stores, but why should you buy a different toy just because it may not do more than advertised?