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I think that mostly I agree with the author, that there is a religious following of the long hours/never sleep work model. What has worked for me, as I am over

by csydas 5y ago

I think that mostly I agree with the author, that there is a religious following of the long hours/never sleep work model. What has worked for me, as I am over worked and spend far too much time on meetings at all off hours, is flexible hours instead of rigid ones. My day blends a lot more, as I have periods of work and periods of "life". Instead of a rigid 8 hour block, work is just one of those chores I do, and I align blocks of time much like I would for cleaning the bathroom, getting groceries, zoning out on a show or a run, etc. This means a lot of breaks and no-work times, and a lot of responses and participation at times when colleaguss in other regions don't expect it. It kinda works for me :) The impression is that I never sleep, but in reality, it's just I am distributing the work hours far differently and I can get s lot more done this way. 1.5 hours in some morning over coffee for email, scattered calls throughout the day, in the evening set aside some time after dinner and exercise for some project work (actual coding or just thinking about it). Sometimes I just merge it with other activities that don't need my full attention (is it an evening walk or a planning session if I think about a project while walking?) I am very lucky I have this flexibility, and I know it is not a universal thing that everyone can get, but not having such a rigid structure let me really break down my day to work the way I need. I still meet all deadlines, meet all meetings, and I define when I'm not answering emails or messages. It rubs some people the wrong way as they never know when to plan meetings that involve me since they rely on outlook scheduler, and unexpected meetings tend to not happen as often (which is good for me :) ), but ultimately I like having more control over when I allocate work time

leksak 5y ago
I used to be one of the people that were ascribed the "talented" label. It opened a lot of doors, and I've had a career that initially was deemed as more successful than that of my peers. However, after burning out twice I've never recovered the ability of doing _anything cognitive_ other than physical exercise for extended durations of time. I no longer get called talented, and things are a lot more challenging --- and I'm more afraid to go after tough tasks --- but I still manage to get things done. It's just that I need a lengthy break after 2-3 hours of being cognitive. Your comment semi-accurately reflects how I lived my life _before_ burning out. I sussed out when I tried to do a more 8-5 kind of thing. But I struggled to fit a lot of things other than "work".
- sneak 5y ago
  It also could be age, not just the fact that you burned out twice. I definitely have less cognitive stamina than I did ten years ago. Who knows if that is age, pandemic-isolation-related, or what.
- csydas 5y ago
  I get that. For me this works because I gave myself permission to do what I think US culture (where I grew up) forbids us to do; set clear boundaries. Not acting rude or harsh to people, but instead just being honest and protective of our time, both work and personal. I do have a reputation of being "difficult to work with" from some people, but almost universally those who have that perception are the ones making heavy demands on my time because they themselves cannot influence the resolution. Sales managers, customer success managers, they spam meetings and unplanned calls and emails with no more content than "this has to be resolved yesterday" and other cliches. I have no qualms just outright ignoring them or calling them out for violating procedure/policy. The same types that just want to keep a channel of updates open and to help buy time? Much better relationships as they understand the process more and respect people's time. Basically there is a stress aspect, and it's not for everyone. For me, having those firm boundaries and being honest with myself that this is my time and it's my choice, I don't need to feel guilty for protecting it, it helped a lot
  - kelseyfrog 5y ago
    > I gave myself permission to ... set clear boundaries. My biggest career regret is that I fell into the trap of not setting boundaries for fifteen years. What is clear to many people now was not to me then. Even now, I'm learning the basics like that there are different types of boundaries and in business which ones are most important to set and what happens if they aren't set. Time-boundaries, for example, are commonly discussed, but equally important are socio-emotional boundaries. Have you ever stopped to realize that you talk to a lot of people daily, but lack emotional support or the deeper connections that come from being emotionally vulnerable? I have. It's easy to surround oneself with work friendships that only ever touch on surface-level topics. Having a clear emotional boundary helps create space for emotionally meaningful connections outside of work. That's a lesson I wish I didn't have to learn the hard way.
britch 5y ago
Interesting, thanks for sharing this. I'm curious how you know you've "worked enough"? I find that I'm someone who works well in nonstandard hours and would like to take this approach to work. At the same time I find the "work whenever" structure very dangerous for me. There's always more that needs to be done than I can fit in a day. It's really easy for me to spending most of my day thinking about work or working, even when I'm doing something else. Maybe I'm just not built for this kind of work, but I'm curious if you have a technique for dealing with this kind of thing
- csydas 5y ago
  Sure, for me I focus on a few aspects: 1. What are the high priority projects? 2. What must have my attention? What can be delegated and monitored? What can be delegated and forgotten? What is in our responsibilities and what needs to be redirected? 3. What is a personally engaging project I want to work on to stay excited? 1 and 3 are the ones I get careful about and closely monitor myself to see how tired I am and how my thoughts are; since a lot of my work is not just technical but also communication of this to a lot of persons (internal and external), I take the time to be very aware of my mood and my thoughts and feelings. If I'm feeling angry or grumpy towards everything, it's time to stop because this will bleed into my work and I've worked enough. I force myself to send an update that I will have something more substantial later and a brief summary of where we are at. For technical items, I kind of let the linter tell me how many mistakes I'm making ;) If the linter is working hard, probably it means I'm just too tired to be effective, and it's time to write down my current thoughts and plans in the next 5 minutes and call it for them, and either rest for the day or relax a little I constantly violate schedules so task lists and timers don't work for me. I prefer an ultimate deadline and I'll manage my way there. On a day to day basis I just decide what my task list is and the priority and then go one by one. Hope this gives some inspiration.

by csydas 5y ago

leksak 5y ago

I used to be one of the people that were ascribed the "talented" label. It opened a lot of doors, and I've had a career that initially was deemed as more successful than that of my peers. However, after burning out twice I've never recovered the ability of doing _anything cognitive_ other than physical exercise for extended durations of time. I no longer get called talented, and things are a lot more challenging --- and I'm more afraid to go after tough tasks --- but I still manage to get things done. It's just that I need a lengthy break after 2-3 hours of being cognitive. Your comment semi-accurately reflects how I lived my life _before_ burning out. I sussed out when I tried to do a more 8-5 kind of thing. But I struggled to fit a lot of things other than "work".

sneak 5y ago
It also could be age, not just the fact that you burned out twice. I definitely have less cognitive stamina than I did ten years ago. Who knows if that is age, pandemic-isolation-related, or what.
csydas 5y ago
I get that. For me this works because I gave myself permission to do what I think US culture (where I grew up) forbids us to do; set clear boundaries. Not acting rude or harsh to people, but instead just being honest and protective of our time, both work and personal. I do have a reputation of being "difficult to work with" from some people, but almost universally those who have that perception are the ones making heavy demands on my time because they themselves cannot influence the resolution. Sales managers, customer success managers, they spam meetings and unplanned calls and emails with no more content than "this has to be resolved yesterday" and other cliches. I have no qualms just outright ignoring them or calling them out for violating procedure/policy. The same types that just want to keep a channel of updates open and to help buy time? Much better relationships as they understand the process more and respect people's time. Basically there is a stress aspect, and it's not for everyone. For me, having those firm boundaries and being honest with myself that this is my time and it's my choice, I don't need to feel guilty for protecting it, it helped a lot
- kelseyfrog 5y ago
  > I gave myself permission to ... set clear boundaries. My biggest career regret is that I fell into the trap of not setting boundaries for fifteen years. What is clear to many people now was not to me then. Even now, I'm learning the basics like that there are different types of boundaries and in business which ones are most important to set and what happens if they aren't set. Time-boundaries, for example, are commonly discussed, but equally important are socio-emotional boundaries. Have you ever stopped to realize that you talk to a lot of people daily, but lack emotional support or the deeper connections that come from being emotionally vulnerable? I have. It's easy to surround oneself with work friendships that only ever touch on surface-level topics. Having a clear emotional boundary helps create space for emotionally meaningful connections outside of work. That's a lesson I wish I didn't have to learn the hard way.

britch 5y ago

Interesting, thanks for sharing this. I'm curious how you know you've "worked enough"? I find that I'm someone who works well in nonstandard hours and would like to take this approach to work. At the same time I find the "work whenever" structure very dangerous for me. There's always more that needs to be done than I can fit in a day. It's really easy for me to spending most of my day thinking about work or working, even when I'm doing something else. Maybe I'm just not built for this kind of work, but I'm curious if you have a technique for dealing with this kind of thing

csydas 5y ago
Sure, for me I focus on a few aspects: 1. What are the high priority projects? 2. What must have my attention? What can be delegated and monitored? What can be delegated and forgotten? What is in our responsibilities and what needs to be redirected? 3. What is a personally engaging project I want to work on to stay excited? 1 and 3 are the ones I get careful about and closely monitor myself to see how tired I am and how my thoughts are; since a lot of my work is not just technical but also communication of this to a lot of persons (internal and external), I take the time to be very aware of my mood and my thoughts and feelings. If I'm feeling angry or grumpy towards everything, it's time to stop because this will bleed into my work and I've worked enough. I force myself to send an update that I will have something more substantial later and a brief summary of where we are at. For technical items, I kind of let the linter tell me how many mistakes I'm making ;) If the linter is working hard, probably it means I'm just too tired to be effective, and it's time to write down my current thoughts and plans in the next 5 minutes and call it for them, and either rest for the day or relax a little I constantly violate schedules so task lists and timers don't work for me. I prefer an ultimate deadline and I'll manage my way there. On a day to day basis I just decide what my task list is and the priority and then go one by one. Hope this gives some inspiration.