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Turns out most people wanting to do international transfers without a middleman are criminals. Regular people are for the most part fine with international tran

Turns out most people wanting to do international transfers without a middleman are criminals. Regular people are for the most part fine with international transfers going through banks, likely via SWIFT.

GeorgeWBasic 5y ago
Turns out that's no longer the case since banks started to adopt cancel culture too, as seen in Canada. Overbearing governments have created legitimate use cases for crypto money transfers.
auggierose 5y ago
Except if you live in Russia, of course. Or are you saying every Russian is a criminal?
- gorgoiler 5y ago
  If your jurisdiction has imposed sanctions on Russia but you then help a Russian national bypass sanctions then you are the criminal.
  - auggierose 5y ago
    If you are a Russian, and you want to bypass sanctions imposed on you by others, are you then a criminal, too?
    - everfree 5y ago
      If it's illegal for me to send $200 back home to help my family pay for food to be able to eat, call me a criminal I guess.
everfree 5y ago
I don't know if you've actually tried to send an international wire transfer, but it requires more paperwork/effort, is more expensive, and is less reliable than signing a crypto transaction. Many smaller banks require you to physically drive to the branch and wait in line to send one. They usually cost upwards of $40 and that's before currency conversion, which is done at a rate that may or may not be favorable. Making a blockchain payment has pros and cons, but it has enough pros that the "only useful for criminals" argument is tired.
- hiq 5y ago
  > I don't know if you've actually tried to send an international wire transfer, but it requires more paperwork/effort, is more expensive, and is less reliable than signing a crypto transaction. Don't platforms such as https://wise.com/ https://wise.com/ solve international wire transfer problems? I have experience with only a few currencies, but as long as you can do transfers in your home currency online you should be able to do the rest via Wise online as well. In terms of costs, you'd have to go into details to really compare (e.g. some platforms claiming "no fees" are just subsidizing them unsustainably), but if you're converting from and to fiat currencies via something other than a stablecoin you might already lose more because of volatility. I haven't experienced or heard of reliability problems with bank transfers, is that a thing?
  - tuvistavie 5y ago
    Depending on the country, it can truly be. Some of my relatives have money stuck in Lebanon and there is currently not really any way of getting the money out of the country.
  - valcron1000 5y ago
    The problem here is that I'm tied to "Wise", and they can single handedly change how the service works. They decide to which accounts I can send money, not me. They decide what data I must share, not me. They decide the fees, not me. It's just another middle man, like Payoneer, Paysera, Paypal, Revoult, Bankera, Western Union, etc. (yes, I tried them all).
- School-Cotton 5y ago
  Your parent never mentioned wires. I send 43 euros from the US to Germany every month with Wise and it costs about a dollar.
valcron1000 5y ago
I dare you to send me a SWIFT transfer. Not only is very expensive, but most likely I will get my account frozen because international transfers are pretty much not allowed. It's always the same: entitled people from first world countries where the banking system actually works.

GeorgeWBasic 5y ago

Turns out that's no longer the case since banks started to adopt cancel culture too, as seen in Canada. Overbearing governments have created legitimate use cases for crypto money transfers.

auggierose 5y ago

Except if you live in Russia, of course. Or are you saying every Russian is a criminal?

gorgoiler 5y ago
If your jurisdiction has imposed sanctions on Russia but you then help a Russian national bypass sanctions then you are the criminal.
- auggierose 5y ago
  If you are a Russian, and you want to bypass sanctions imposed on you by others, are you then a criminal, too?
  - everfree 5y ago
    If it's illegal for me to send $200 back home to help my family pay for food to be able to eat, call me a criminal I guess.

everfree 5y ago

I don't know if you've actually tried to send an international wire transfer, but it requires more paperwork/effort, is more expensive, and is less reliable than signing a crypto transaction. Many smaller banks require you to physically drive to the branch and wait in line to send one. They usually cost upwards of $40 and that's before currency conversion, which is done at a rate that may or may not be favorable. Making a blockchain payment has pros and cons, but it has enough pros that the "only useful for criminals" argument is tired.

hiq 5y ago
> I don't know if you've actually tried to send an international wire transfer, but it requires more paperwork/effort, is more expensive, and is less reliable than signing a crypto transaction. Don't platforms such as https://wise.com/ https://wise.com/ solve international wire transfer problems? I have experience with only a few currencies, but as long as you can do transfers in your home currency online you should be able to do the rest via Wise online as well. In terms of costs, you'd have to go into details to really compare (e.g. some platforms claiming "no fees" are just subsidizing them unsustainably), but if you're converting from and to fiat currencies via something other than a stablecoin you might already lose more because of volatility. I haven't experienced or heard of reliability problems with bank transfers, is that a thing?
- tuvistavie 5y ago
  Depending on the country, it can truly be. Some of my relatives have money stuck in Lebanon and there is currently not really any way of getting the money out of the country.
- valcron1000 5y ago
  The problem here is that I'm tied to "Wise", and they can single handedly change how the service works. They decide to which accounts I can send money, not me. They decide what data I must share, not me. They decide the fees, not me. It's just another middle man, like Payoneer, Paysera, Paypal, Revoult, Bankera, Western Union, etc. (yes, I tried them all).
School-Cotton 5y ago
Your parent never mentioned wires. I send 43 euros from the US to Germany every month with Wise and it costs about a dollar.

valcron1000 5y ago

I dare you to send me a SWIFT transfer. Not only is very expensive, but most likely I will get my account frozen because international transfers are pretty much not allowed. It's always the same: entitled people from first world countries where the banking system actually works.