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This seems like the angry ramblings of someone who missed the boat. I'm not invested in cryptocurrency or other tokens, but this seems very unfair to the ecosy

This seems like the angry ramblings of someone who missed the boat. I'm not invested in cryptocurrency or other tokens, but this seems very unfair to the ecosystems that power them. Sure, there are centralized wallets, marketplaces, APIs, but that's just not the point, not the problem they're trying to solve. If Google deletes your account, that's it. If OpenSea deletes your account, another app will happily connect to your wallet and let you continue where you left off.

Nursie 5y ago
> If OpenSea deletes your account, another app will happily connect to your wallet and let you continue where you left off. Or not, because they all use the OpenSea API instead of bothering with the blockchain.
- TobyTheDog123 5y ago
  Maybe OpenSea is a bad example (NFTs are something I really don't understand) ;) A better example might be a DEX like Uniswap. Uniswap goes-down/bans-you/whatever? Use PancakeSwap or 1Inch or Futureswap or some other equally-ridiculously-named service. They all connect to the wallet that you own and cant be taken away from you.
  - everfree 5y ago
    If the Uniswap website goes down, you don't even have to switch services. You can just pick a different frontend for the Uniswap contract. In fact, 1Inch uses the Uniswap contract to fulfill some of its trades. The trick is that the Uniswap API/service itself, the smart contract, cannot go down unless the entire Ethereum network itself is down.
- sohailk 5y ago
  Alchemy has a NFT indexer api as well. I also know of at least two other offerings that will launch very soon. Additionally, you can interact w the Opensea contracts without a UI.
- resonious 5y ago
  This is a good example of a problem that's common to most web technology: the people using the tech have absolutely no clue how it works and have no way to confirm any of it. It's like when I give my credit card info to PayPal. There's a picture of a lock on the bottom of the page, so probably safe, right? I'm on OpenSea and it says the NFTs are "decentralized" and that I have absolute ownership if I buy one. So how come people can still right-click-save-as when I post the image on Twitter? The tech is solid. There really are NFTs and they cannot be stolen etc etc (barring bugs and phishing of course!). It's just that there's no way for a layperson to confirm any of that. People are just as likely to use some random Django+Postgres app than they are a real blockchain system because they're indistinguishable as long as everything's going smoothly.
djur 5y ago
Continue where you left off, except without access to OpenSea (or whatever other vendor), in an economy where the value of the contents of your wallet is increasingly dependent on the availability and visibility of your "digital assets" on vendor services. But you're right. Decentralization is not the problem that the crypto community is trying to solve, because they don't actually care about a decentralized "Web3". They care about the parts of the system that make them rich. The "decentralization" cant is just social-good camouflage, no different from Facebook's claims about making lives better through the "metaverse".
- TobyTheDog123 5y ago
  I don't see it quite as pessimistically. Of course people are going to try to make as much money as possible being early to something they consider the next big thing. Of course there were going to be ridiculous dogecoins and shibcoins and peepeepoopoo coins that make people rich just because people are having fun and being reckless in this new wild west of online currency. That doesn't make legitimate projects null and void, or devalue the problems they're trying to solve.
- fastball 5y ago
  If you get banned from OpenSea but still want to sell your Bored Ape, you definitely still can, and almost certainly for whatever the market rate on OpenSea is.
  - djur 5y ago
    What if the NFT itself gets banned from OpenSea?
    - sohailk 5y ago
      There's a few more NFT market places you can sell it on? You can try selling it P2P? Opensea is reliant on the NFT marketplace/culture, not the other way around.
    - genge 5y ago
      OpenSea is a DAO, so if they: a) voted an NFT out: well, people against it would move to an other platform and still have access to their NFT. b) somoeone on the front-end deleted access to an NFT: they would probably move the front-end somewhere else.
mccorrinall 5y ago
If we “missed the boat” for Web3, does that imply that it isn’t going to bring its benefits to all of us?
- TobyTheDog123 5y ago
  I was speaking from an investment perspective there, not a utility one.
  - mccorrinall 5y ago
    Is it overvalued at this point? Will reach its end of growth soon and stay niche? You can’t be truly bullish about something and tell me at the same time that I missed the boat.
    - TobyTheDog123 5y ago
      I can, actually. Those who invested two years ago have likely already made more money than anyone investing now can. Bitcoin was $20 like… 10 years ago? What price would BTC have to reach for you to get the same level of return if you invested now compared to back then?
      - danShumway 5y ago
        That's pretty easy math to do. Frankly, a world where Bitcoin doesn't eventually see a 2100 times increase in value is also probably a world where it doesn't become a generally-used global currency. If the argument is that Bitcoin's valuation is going to slow down from this point on, then in my mind that is basically a concession that it's not going to revolutionize the world the way that its proponents claim. I don't think people completely understand how incredibly niche cryptocurrency still is and how much it would have to grow before it overtook fiat currencies. Of course, the question is whether BTC's utility actually is going to increase the way its proponents claim (which I am skeptical of). But if it did increase, it's hard to imagine an increasingly limited deflationary asset that's going up in utility value wouldn't also see proportional price increases.

Nursie 5y ago

> If OpenSea deletes your account, another app will happily connect to your wallet and let you continue where you left off. Or not, because they all use the OpenSea API instead of bothering with the blockchain.

TobyTheDog123 5y ago
Maybe OpenSea is a bad example (NFTs are something I really don't understand) ;) A better example might be a DEX like Uniswap. Uniswap goes-down/bans-you/whatever? Use PancakeSwap or 1Inch or Futureswap or some other equally-ridiculously-named service. They all connect to the wallet that you own and cant be taken away from you.
- everfree 5y ago
  If the Uniswap website goes down, you don't even have to switch services. You can just pick a different frontend for the Uniswap contract. In fact, 1Inch uses the Uniswap contract to fulfill some of its trades. The trick is that the Uniswap API/service itself, the smart contract, cannot go down unless the entire Ethereum network itself is down.
sohailk 5y ago
Alchemy has a NFT indexer api as well. I also know of at least two other offerings that will launch very soon. Additionally, you can interact w the Opensea contracts without a UI.
resonious 5y ago
This is a good example of a problem that's common to most web technology: the people using the tech have absolutely no clue how it works and have no way to confirm any of it. It's like when I give my credit card info to PayPal. There's a picture of a lock on the bottom of the page, so probably safe, right? I'm on OpenSea and it says the NFTs are "decentralized" and that I have absolute ownership if I buy one. So how come people can still right-click-save-as when I post the image on Twitter? The tech is solid. There really are NFTs and they cannot be stolen etc etc (barring bugs and phishing of course!). It's just that there's no way for a layperson to confirm any of that. People are just as likely to use some random Django+Postgres app than they are a real blockchain system because they're indistinguishable as long as everything's going smoothly.

djur 5y ago

Continue where you left off, except without access to OpenSea (or whatever other vendor), in an economy where the value of the contents of your wallet is increasingly dependent on the availability and visibility of your "digital assets" on vendor services. But you're right. Decentralization is not the problem that the crypto community is trying to solve, because they don't actually care about a decentralized "Web3". They care about the parts of the system that make them rich. The "decentralization" cant is just social-good camouflage, no different from Facebook's claims about making lives better through the "metaverse".

TobyTheDog123 5y ago
I don't see it quite as pessimistically. Of course people are going to try to make as much money as possible being early to something they consider the next big thing. Of course there were going to be ridiculous dogecoins and shibcoins and peepeepoopoo coins that make people rich just because people are having fun and being reckless in this new wild west of online currency. That doesn't make legitimate projects null and void, or devalue the problems they're trying to solve.
fastball 5y ago
If you get banned from OpenSea but still want to sell your Bored Ape, you definitely still can, and almost certainly for whatever the market rate on OpenSea is.
- djur 5y ago
  What if the NFT itself gets banned from OpenSea?
  - sohailk 5y ago
    There's a few more NFT market places you can sell it on? You can try selling it P2P? Opensea is reliant on the NFT marketplace/culture, not the other way around.
  - genge 5y ago
    OpenSea is a DAO, so if they: a) voted an NFT out: well, people against it would move to an other platform and still have access to their NFT. b) somoeone on the front-end deleted access to an NFT: they would probably move the front-end somewhere else.

mccorrinall 5y ago

If we “missed the boat” for Web3, does that imply that it isn’t going to bring its benefits to all of us?

TobyTheDog123 5y ago
I was speaking from an investment perspective there, not a utility one.
- mccorrinall 5y ago
  Is it overvalued at this point? Will reach its end of growth soon and stay niche? You can’t be truly bullish about something and tell me at the same time that I missed the boat.
  - TobyTheDog123 5y ago
    I can, actually. Those who invested two years ago have likely already made more money than anyone investing now can. Bitcoin was $20 like… 10 years ago? What price would BTC have to reach for you to get the same level of return if you invested now compared to back then?
    - danShumway 5y ago
      That's pretty easy math to do. Frankly, a world where Bitcoin doesn't eventually see a 2100 times increase in value is also probably a world where it doesn't become a generally-used global currency. If the argument is that Bitcoin's valuation is going to slow down from this point on, then in my mind that is basically a concession that it's not going to revolutionize the world the way that its proponents claim. I don't think people completely understand how incredibly niche cryptocurrency still is and how much it would have to grow before it overtook fiat currencies. Of course, the question is whether BTC's utility actually is going to increase the way its proponents claim (which I am skeptical of). But if it did increase, it's hard to imagine an increasingly limited deflationary asset that's going up in utility value wouldn't also see proportional price increases.