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Sean Parker's Email to Daniek Ek of Spotify
- spiffistan 15y agoPretty much sums up why I ended up ditching my subscription to Spotify after a year. Spotify is a really great service -- it's just that I truly hate Facebook and all it stands for.
- veyron 15y agoDo you hate the concept of facebook or the realization?
- Helianthus 15y agoIs there a difference? ;)
- sinzone 15y agoAlready covered here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3077312 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3077312
- trustfundbaby 15y agoThe responsiveness of their desktop client is why I ditched rdio for spotify
- vasco 15y agoNapster - 12 occurrences, Facebook - 10 occurrences, Spotify - 7 occurrences
- tlrobinson 15y agoYou - 48 occurrences
- kaichanvong 15y agoAll I saw was, "Blah blah CONGRATS!!! blah blah blah Facebook. Blah blah Zuck. Blah blah blah napster, blah blah blah napster, blah blah blah CONGRATS! Blah blah blah napster."
- stfu 15y agoMaking way to many "x is good because it is similar to Napster" arguments. He seems to be measuring anything against Napster or some artificial Napster of his mind (how it hypothetically could have evolved). Kinda stuck in the past.
- tejaswiy 15y agoI really wonder if he speaks like this IRL too. I had a pretty high impression of Parker till now, but if he can't say a good thing about Spotify without talking about how he did or thought about doing everything in Napster first ..
- bcaulf 15y agoNo, he is not anything like this letter in real life. He is happy to have wide ranging conversations without reference to his own history or accomplishments. I suppose that in the letter he was trying to establish credibility and rapport with the Spotify guys. It certainly worked out well for both of them in the end.
- icandoitbetter 15y agoTL;DR: Sean Parker brags a lot about Napster.
- igorgue 15y agoThat was more like TL;DR_I_DIDN'T_EITHER_BUT_I'LL_TELL_YOU_ANYWAYS. IMHO it was a class on "How to get somebody interested on you to partner with them".
- heyrhett 15y agoI paid $10 to spotify, and I still wasn't as happy as I am with what grooveshark gives me for free. I have no idea if what grooveshark is doing is sustainable, but I've talked to others, and they concur.
- LiveTheDream 15y agoI have found that Grooveshark actually has much better content selection, as well. Most of my listening is through Pandora One, but when I want a specific song I have never failed to find it on Grooveshark, but frequently cannot find it on Spotify.
- earbitscom 15y agoBecause many of those songs have not been licensed to Spotify or Grooveshark. But Grooveshark is much like Honey Badger.
- f7u12 15y agoSame here. Tried a friend's Spotify account, and I couldn't find any of the music I've been listening to recently. Most of the stuff I listen to is relatively new that I find through The Hype Machine. Seems to me like Spotify is going to be pretty slow to add new, non-mainstream music. /hipster
- juxta 15y agogrooveshark is great but it could be better. What I like about Spotify compared to Grooveshark is their "playlist" feature where it shows top songs in the "US" or "UK". I know grooveshark offers that but most of the songs sometimes are really old while Spotify refreshes the list every so often. Also - I would use Grooveshark more if it had a better "ratings" feature for radio. When I thumb up/thumb down a song - it doesnt take into account why i did that (such as what Pandora does) and it keeps giving me music I dislike. I want to discover new music - Grooveshark allows this but a lot my friends don't have a Grooveshark account but still use the service w/o signin (now the ones who do use it - I love, since I can see what exactly they listen to and discover new music).
- 15y ago
- quasistar 15y agoAnyone else perfectly content using Youtube as their primary music player and discovery service? Where else can I instantly switch between the rarest Medieval Madrigals and the latest Reni Lane dubmixes as the mood suits?
- siphr 15y agoGuilty but satisfied. :)
- SkyMarshal 15y agoYoutube is awesome for discovery, but meh as a music player imho. Youtube is like MTV for the web - your music gets served with a video of some sort, whether you want it or not. Most people seem fine with that, but I just want the music.
- apsurd 15y agoquality is terrible.
- allanscu 15y agoI use Cull.tv -- they have a discovery engine built on top of the You Tube API. Nice interface too.
- megaman821 15y agoHaving the option to listen to my music without having to install an app is the main reason why I choose Rdio over Spotify. Rdio's desktop app could be a lot better but I do appreciate the choice on how I get to listen. Also there are a large amount of people that can't install anything on their work computers but can access a music website.
- SkyMarshal 15y agoI particularly agree with all of his reasons for a desktop client instead of web interface. It's just a better experience for music. And there's an edge use case I hope Spotify will support at some point: I find a cool remix on Youtube, but it doesn't exist anywhere else. I use a flash downloader to get it, then another program to strip the audio out of it. Now I want to load it into Spotify (Ok so far) and add it to a playlist to share with my friends. So far it seems that sharing music like this (or say that I downloaded from Newgrounds.com) that's not in Spotify's catalog is not enabled. Hope it will be someday. "Final thought: I'm glad that you guys resisted the temptation to build a web basedapp. I remain a strong believer in the desktop client approach in music for a numberof reasons. 1. Speed/responsiveness of interface, and optimized downloading and streaming 2. Bandwidth savings of P2P architecture 3. Easy integration with hardware devices such as the iPod (ultimately you want tocontrol the interface to the portable devices where you can monetize moreeffectively by charging for download…) 4. There are vast repositories of "grey" content on people's computers across theworld. This content is often forgotten by the labels and publishers. The fact that youhave a client and P2P capability will allow you to someday unlock all of thiscontent…this goes way beyond the master music catalog that is licensed to you bythe labels. A big part of Napster was the joy of discovering various remixes, liverecordings and other obscurities that copyright owners have literally lost track of. 5. While you could have built a "thin" client that runs in the background and powersweb based streaming, why go to all the trouble of building and distributing clientsoftware when you could build the real experience? There is tremendous value incontrolling the client software real estate and it allows for a much snappierexperience."
- samstave 15y ago>I particularly agree with all of his reasons for a desktop client instead of web interface. I have two arguments: (1) Pandora is a great service (b) I also listen to Pandora on my phone a lot.
- SkyMarshal 15y agoMuchos props to Pandora and their music genome project, glad to see it appears to be succeeding. However, I never really found it a particularly good music discovery service for my own tastes. I get more out of digging around Youtube, subreddits, Newgrounds, and other social music discovery sites. But clearly there's room for multiple approaches to the problem. And yes, having a phone app that you can sync with your web-based playlists is a good workaround to the native desktop client issue. Just listen on your smartphone instead.
- dave1619 15y agoI'm surprised at how helpful Sean Parker was trying to be in the email, and the open offer to help.
- mdda 15y agoUnfortunately, having seen "The Social Network", I can't help but read a lot between the lines here. And it's mainly in a voice that's both Machiavellian and threatening... Maybe the level of enthusiasm is all positive and innocent: But reading the recent news, it seems that Spotify has tied itself closely to Facebook, but the monogamy only goes one way.
- xelipe 15y agoI picked up on that too. Just read the first line of every paragraph... "Your design is clean, elegant, tight, and fast... Ever since Napster I've dreamt of building a product similar to Spotify.... You know what's cool, a billion dollars is cool..."
- mattgreenrocks 15y agoYeah, between the tone and the length, it doesn't seem like Parker has pure motives for Spotify.
- SkyMarshal 15y agoSerious question for everyone who prefers web-based players: The main reason that doens't work for me is b/c I'm a browser tab-a-holic. Anytime I open Chrome, Chromium, or Firefox, it's usually two windows with 5 to 10 tabs each. Stuff I'm working on or reading during breaks or whatever. But sometimes I don't want the browser open, when I'm working on something that doesn't immediately require it, but I do want my music. Eg, I want my music decoupled from the browser. Hence I prefer a native app for music players. Is that just an edge case, or anyone else have same or similar issues with browser-based players?
- tlrobinson 15y agoI have the same problem, and Fluid.app, Mozilla Chromeless/Prism, and similar desktop wrappers are pretty good solutions.
- WiseWeasel 15y agoYou could use a second browser strictly for music playback.
- SkyMarshal 15y agoYeah, unfortunately my tab problem applies to all my browsers - chrome, chromium, firefox, opera. Yes I'm starting therapy.
- untog 15y agoI don't understand why he talks about web vs. desktop as it it's an either/or argument. I agree with all the points he makes about a desktop client, but I still prefer Rdio- I can use the desktop client when I'm at my normal PC, but if I'm ever anywhere else, I can just fire up the web client. What possible argument is there against flexibility like that?
- chrischen 15y agoI believe their desktop app is just their web app wrapped in a container.
- untog 15y agoIt isn't- I'm looking at it now. I have premium accounts with both Spotify and Rdio (so I can try them out and make a choice) and while the Rdio client might possibly be more HTML-oriented, it doesn't show.
- mrshoe 15y agoI was disappointed by the lack of an "a million dollars isn't cool..." pitch. That being said, I think he did a fine job of endearing himself to the Spotify team by stroking their egos a bit and demonstrating that he's like minded. All you founders here on HN looking for co-founders or partnerships should take note.
- alexwolfe 15y agoI think the real take away from this is not Desktop vs. Web Based its how Sean Parker conducts himself. This guy knows how to work the room, he's a great networker. I know very few that would have put the time and energy into writing a letter like that. It really shows what it takes to be a top notch entrepreneur. Fascinating stuff.
- justinph 15y agoJustin Timberlake just read a letter in my head.
- martin1b 15y agoYep, and yech.
- redthrowaway 15y ago"Until now, no digital musicservice has met, let alone exceeded the bar set by Napster." Did he ever use Napster? It was slow, search was terrible, most files were bad copies, there were viruses everywhere... Napster was great because it was the first widespread way to get digital music. It was terrible as a platform, and quickly surpassed by its successors in every meaningful way. Parker's got his reality distortion field going full blast if he thinks napster was a better music delivery system than Kazaa/Limewire/etc, or torrents. With Grooveshark and the like out there, saying Napster has yet to be surpassed is like saying a PII is superior in every way to an i7.
- Ixiaus 15y agoHe came off as insecure in that email, to me. Constantly dropping how "great" Napster was and how nothing but Spotify could match its brilliance.
- AmericanOP 15y agoAgain with this. Every time someone from the Silicon Valley pantheon does something interesting and it reaches HN, people feel the need to voice if they 'like' it or resist 'liking' it. I think it's immensely interesting Parker and Zuck think in terms of experiences, not just UX, but the experiential realities of using a piece of technology. Every tech visionary I've met looks at products and services this way. This is an inside look into the way Parker thinks about technology, and the comments are just a bunch of people mashing the mythical 'dislike' button. Emotions change thinking, I get it. Optimism and Pessimism are the two emotional reactions to an opportunity. Optimists imagine a positive reason for the event happening- superstition- (I need a hacker to help me with my startup, he's perfect), pessimists focus on the risks- paranoia- (I don't want to give equity to this guy). Understand how emotion directs thought and then see things as they are. That being said, I think it's weird that the actions of successful people provoke emotional responses on this forum.
- redthrowaway 15y agoMy response wasn't emotional, it was incredulous. Parker's a smart guy; I was surprised he made such a statement. It would be as if Henry Ford, at 100 and whatever, claimed that no car had ever matched the Model T until the 2012 Lamborghini Aventador. It's just a clearly false statement, and something that inspires incredulity on the part of those hearing it, especially from a guy like Ford/Parker.
- pkaler 15y agoThe key word in that email is "sequencing". Which features to build and in which order.
- tptacek 15y agoI use Rdio all day, 50/50 web and desktop (and desktop is just an Air wrapper around web), and I like it better than iTunes (which I like a lot). It's very responsive. The browser actually contributes the experience (history, back button). What am I missing here? I'm not convinced that the web isn't already the best place to build a music streaming application.
- russell_h 15y agoDo you know how the availability of content on Rdio compares to Spotify?
- ktusznio 15y agoVarious counts put Spotify at ~15m songs, and Rdio at ~9m songs. http://blog.like.fm/top-5-music-streaming-services-reviewed http://blog.like.fm/top-5-music-streaming-services-reviewed http://pansentient.com/2011/03/music-streaming-services-who-has-the-most-music/ http://pansentient.com/2011/03/music-streaming-services-who-...
- ralphc 15y agoI'd agree with that, I especially found with metal that Spotify has a larger selection.
- shuzchen 15y agoI've encountered different stories about the availability of content, but I think it really boils down to what sort of music you listen to. Personally, I find Spotify has more of the things that I listen to - but like I said I've talked with friends (that have different taste in music) that claim the same about another service. That said, I think everyone I've talked to agrees Grooveshark has the best coverage, but everything there is so disorganized (and nobody is really sure of the legality).
- elektronaut 15y agoGrooveshark is legal (AFAIK), but their business model is somewhat sketchy. Content is peer-to-peer sourced, and if you don't want your music on Grooveshark, you'll have to file a DMCA infringement claim.
- nextparadigms 15y agoGrooveshark is the best, and it's completely free, plus no forceful sign-ins into Facebook.
- badclient 15y agoSpotify has blown me away in all the good ways. They have definitely significantly reduced the time I spend on YouTube and made iTunes obsolete for me. Unfortunately, I've experienced one too many subscription stream service(Yahoo Music anyone?) only to see them go down under after a few years. Anyone know Spotify's future prospects in this regard? Yes, they are superb right now. But what are the chances they'll increase their price from 10 bucks to 30 bucks or something even more ridiculous once they have peaked growth.
- SeoxyS 15y agoMore interesting to me than the content of the email itself is the length. Jesus, that's a three-page email. I have no idea how a long-winded email like this can be convincing. Effective communication is about quickly and concisely providing a message of substance, not writing 3 pages of fluff that could have by written in a paragraph: Hey, I love what you guys have been doing with Spotify. As you know, I had a very similar vision when I built Napster. I would love to extend my help in any of my area of expertise, whether it be the music business, the social space or potential investment. Let's grab coffee and talk a little more! Cheers, -Sean
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- aridiculous 15y agoFor most of us, yes. But when you're a connected billionaire, you can write a novel and the founders of Spotify will read it.
- Geee 15y agoWell, that clears up the 'Sean-athon.'
- mkramlich 15y agoI was waiting for something at the end like, "And one more thing. Drop the -ify. Just Spot. Cleaner."
- jayliew 15y agoLessons learned: 1. Build MVP 2. Get in front of a bunch of users & iterate (build whatever else supporting features) 3. :)