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While I can understand the kneejerk reaction to a bunch of foreign folks coming and building up land, especially as it sounds like there was little local stakeh

While I can understand the kneejerk reaction to a bunch of foreign folks coming and building up land, especially as it sounds like there was little local stakeholder involvement, I think this presents a seriously one-sided view of the project. I personally always thought the idea of Prospera was interesting if not particularly economically compelling (I'm much more of a fan of building charter cities more fore locals and really focusing on fulfilling their needs like what the folks at Talent City Nigeria are doing) and would hate for it to be brought down or damaged to a point where it hurts the whole movement and of course, the economic opportunities that FDI can bring to locals. All that said, I think that this is relatively old as it refers to the President as Juan Orlando Hernandez who was replaced in late 2021 during the latest presidential election.

youeseh 5y ago
I think they're also upset with people who live in some city taking their land away through legal trickery. These areas probably don't produce many lawyers.
- bifrost 5y ago
  Could you describe said "trickery"? Eminent Domain is one thing, but people paying eachother for land is as old as time, as is being butthurt about the price.
  - youeseh 5y ago
    Often the deals aren't limited to cash. There are promises of economic development, education, healthcare etc.. as well. You might agree to give your land away to a verbal deal where promises are made, only to discover later that the detailed text contains contingencies that give your counterparty an out of one or more major promise that you had taken for granted as part of the deal.
  - rendall 5y ago
    The essay describes the trickery. Replacing Supreme Court justices with those more compliant, for one.
  - shkkmo 5y ago
    The problem comes when the people selling the land don't have the cleqr legal rights to do so. The problems get far more complicated when the land being sold is owned collectively by a group of indigenous people. Deposing your supreme court when they rule against your new law, and replacing them with ones that reverses that decision goes well past legal trickery into coup territory.
  - jbotz 5y ago
    One could write a book about all the different forms of legal trickery that have been used to expropriate lands from people who have lived on it for generations but don't necessarily have all the "proper" paperwork. Or even if they do. I live in a backwater in Brazil and I have seen lots of this. Even "gringos" are often victims because they don't know all the hoops you have to jump through to get the proper paperwork, and no infrequently the lawyer they hire turns out to be a thief.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
arcticbull 5y ago
Why on earth would anyone support charter cities? Cities are a community of people and should be owned, operated, legislated by and accountable to the community, not outsiders. This is not even a new idea, and it ended really poorly last time - see the Concessions in Shanghai. [1] Having a huge disparity in the power of the so-called guarantor country as compared to the local host country is just a new take on colonialism. [edit] However the biggest issue seems to be that it was found unconstitutional, then the judges were evicted and replaced (in what the UN described as an attack on democracy), and then all of a sudden it was constitutional. Telling the locals you know better than they do about how their region should be administered, while giving yourself the ability to exploit the living crap out of them thanks to your privileged position of being a foreigner is roughly how colonialism was carried out. [edit] It's particularly relevant that Paul Romer proposed this at a Ted talk and then talked the Hondurans into it - citing Hong Kong as an example of a well-run charter city. Remember what happened there two years ago through present? [2] If that's your contemporary flagship... Yeah, that's pretty much what's going to happen to all of these soon-to-be-catastrophes. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_International_Settlement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_International_Settlem... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_city_(economic_development) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_city_(economic_develop...
- lmm 5y ago
  > Cities are a community of people and should be owned, operated, legislated by and accountable to the community, not outsiders. Isn't that exactly what a charter city is? A city that's accountable to its own community, not to outsiders in the rest of the country. > It's particularly relevant that Paul Romer proposed this at a Ted talk and then talked the Hondurans into it - citing Hong Kong as an example of a well-run charter city. Remember what happened there two years ago through present? [2] If that's your contemporary flagship... Yeah, that's pretty much what's going to happen to all of these soon-to-be-catastrophes. Or you could have a country that respected the rule of law more than the CCP does (not a high bar), and was willing to accept the loss of control in return for the advantages of this kind of city.
  - arcticbull 5y ago
rendall 5y ago
I'm sorry, but this doesn't sound like an argument. It sounds like wishful thinking. I get it, I like the promise of the project, but if true, then the project is stillborn
elliekelly 5y ago
This isn’t a “knee jerk reaction” for Honduras. It’s literally their entire modern history: foreign “investors” showing up and taking their land. You should read the Fish that Ate the Whale. Honduras has a long history of being exploited. I can’t blame them at all for opposing this.

youeseh 5y ago

I think they're also upset with people who live in some city taking their land away through legal trickery. These areas probably don't produce many lawyers.

bifrost 5y ago
Could you describe said "trickery"? Eminent Domain is one thing, but people paying eachother for land is as old as time, as is being butthurt about the price.
- youeseh 5y ago
  Often the deals aren't limited to cash. There are promises of economic development, education, healthcare etc.. as well. You might agree to give your land away to a verbal deal where promises are made, only to discover later that the detailed text contains contingencies that give your counterparty an out of one or more major promise that you had taken for granted as part of the deal.
- rendall 5y ago
  The essay describes the trickery. Replacing Supreme Court justices with those more compliant, for one.
- shkkmo 5y ago
  The problem comes when the people selling the land don't have the cleqr legal rights to do so. The problems get far more complicated when the land being sold is owned collectively by a group of indigenous people. Deposing your supreme court when they rule against your new law, and replacing them with ones that reverses that decision goes well past legal trickery into coup territory.
- jbotz 5y ago
  One could write a book about all the different forms of legal trickery that have been used to expropriate lands from people who have lived on it for generations but don't necessarily have all the "proper" paperwork. Or even if they do. I live in a backwater in Brazil and I have seen lots of this. Even "gringos" are often victims because they don't know all the hoops you have to jump through to get the proper paperwork, and no infrequently the lawyer they hire turns out to be a thief.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

arcticbull 5y ago

Why on earth would anyone support charter cities? Cities are a community of people and should be owned, operated, legislated by and accountable to the community, not outsiders. This is not even a new idea, and it ended really poorly last time - see the Concessions in Shanghai. [1] Having a huge disparity in the power of the so-called guarantor country as compared to the local host country is just a new take on colonialism. [edit] However the biggest issue seems to be that it was found unconstitutional, then the judges were evicted and replaced (in what the UN described as an attack on democracy), and then all of a sudden it was constitutional. Telling the locals you know better than they do about how their region should be administered, while giving yourself the ability to exploit the living crap out of them thanks to your privileged position of being a foreigner is roughly how colonialism was carried out. [edit] It's particularly relevant that Paul Romer proposed this at a Ted talk and then talked the Hondurans into it - citing Hong Kong as an example of a well-run charter city. Remember what happened there two years ago through present? [2] If that's your contemporary flagship... Yeah, that's pretty much what's going to happen to all of these soon-to-be-catastrophes. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_International_Settlement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_International_Settlem... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_city_(economic_development) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_city_(economic_develop...

lmm 5y ago
> Cities are a community of people and should be owned, operated, legislated by and accountable to the community, not outsiders. Isn't that exactly what a charter city is? A city that's accountable to its own community, not to outsiders in the rest of the country. > It's particularly relevant that Paul Romer proposed this at a Ted talk and then talked the Hondurans into it - citing Hong Kong as an example of a well-run charter city. Remember what happened there two years ago through present? [2] If that's your contemporary flagship... Yeah, that's pretty much what's going to happen to all of these soon-to-be-catastrophes. Or you could have a country that respected the rule of law more than the CCP does (not a high bar), and was willing to accept the loss of control in return for the advantages of this kind of city.
- arcticbull 5y ago

rendall 5y ago

I'm sorry, but this doesn't sound like an argument. It sounds like wishful thinking. I get it, I like the promise of the project, but if true, then the project is stillborn

elliekelly 5y ago

This isn’t a “knee jerk reaction” for Honduras. It’s literally their entire modern history: foreign “investors” showing up and taking their land. You should read the Fish that Ate the Whale. Honduras has a long history of being exploited. I can’t blame them at all for opposing this.