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It looks absolutely amazing, but calling it "affordable" at €1600+ is a stretch. You can find non-electric folding bikes for under €200 that are quite sturdy an

by bambax 5y ago

It looks absolutely amazing, but calling it "affordable" at €1600+ is a stretch. You can find non-electric folding bikes for under €200 that are quite sturdy and dependable (although not that small when folded). A few months ago I bought a used folding bike for €100, equipped it with a motor and battery that cost less than €400, for use on train trips. Nothing feels better than getting out of a long-distance train trip, unfolding your bike and going about your way in a different city... No taxis, no complex public transport map to understand, nothing but freedom.

teruakohatu 5y ago
I got a kick out of the banner at the top of the shop answering everyone's first concern which is "Why is the Kwiggle so affordable?" A clever way of answering the actual first question "why so expensive?"
- noisy_boy 5y ago
  They think its clever - I think most people would see through it and just be pissed. Not sure why companies think they can get away insulting the intelligence of their consumers (who, in this case, would have to be wealthy enough to afford their product and hence can be reasonably expected to be smart enough to spot it).
  - WrtCdEvrydy 5y ago
    Because it's telling the customer that if you don't think it's affordable you're not the target market.
    - noisy_boy 5y ago
      Maybe - I can afford it while also having enough awareness that it is not affordable for most folks in general - I just find the glibness off putting.
- kohlerm 5y ago
  for a 10kg foldable bike it is certainly affordable. Most of them (if not all) are more expensive
gorbypark 5y ago
Did you use a conversion kit? I have an older Dahon I'm thinking of converting. Any tips?
- bambax 5y ago
  Yes, a motor + battery kit. It's really simple -- depending on the bike. For a folding bike you need to think ahead of where the engine and battery are going to go when folded. Mid-drive motors are much preferable, if possible (at the center of the bike, between the cranks). There are two Chinese brands for the engines: Bafang and Tongsheng. Bafang has a better reputation; I used a Bafang for my first conversion (a regular MTB). But Tongshengs, in addition to being a little more affordable, are true pedal assist: power is proportional to the force you put on the pedals. It's a different experience from Bafang, but pedal assist feels better on a small folding bike, IMHO. You can buy them on Aliexpress; look for vendors who have inventory in your country, which allows for faster shipping. Here's the final build: https://i.imgur.com/TBHHOc1.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/TBHHOc1.jpeg ... and on the road in Marseilles: https://imgur.com/a/B2mJ17E.jpeg https://imgur.com/a/B2mJ17E.jpeg
- donjoe 5y ago
  Look into velogical motors. Their tiny build size and removable battery should be a perfect fit. http://www.velogical-engineering.com/velospeeder/produktinformationen/ http://www.velogical-engineering.com/velospeeder/produktinfo...
makeitdouble 5y ago
Folding size would justify the price. The 200€ one won't help you if you need to fly it. Even for road trips, for 2 adults in a city car, the size constraints could be enough to not bring two biggish 200€ along. Basically, the choice comes to a 200€ bike you never bring along, or 800/1600€ bikes you can bring anywhere.
gitowiec 5y ago
Thank you for opening my eyes on the price... I'm just a simpleton
kwigglebike 5y ago
It is affordable for the workmanship and materials used. All stainless steel and aluminium.
- bambax 5y ago
  That's not what "affordable" means, sorry.
  - MrKwiggle 5y ago
    thanks for your comment. we have adapted the translation on the page. Two of the most important advantages of a folding bike, namely the weight and the folding volume, are also the largest cost factors in the product price. The price is a matter of quality of material and manufacturing and number of parts. The lower the weight, the higher have to be the quality, the more compact, the more high-tech parts are required. the more expensive will be the bike. You can't produce a folding bike with only 10 kg and only 55 l of folded volume that can easily be ridden up to 25 km/h and is stable for people from 1,30 m to 1,95 m and up to 100 kg for prices below 2,000 euro, unless you produce 100,000 or more in a year or you sell directly to the customers.
- gambiting 5y ago
  By that measure an Audi R8 is affordable, after all it's literally just a Lamborghini Aventador in a much cheaper package, for the money it's an absolute bargain. As bambax said - that's not what affordable means. Affordable is all about whether the target market can afford it, not whether it's good value for the materials and work put in.
- frakkingcylons 5y ago
  If that’s what you mean, then think it’d be more accurate to describe it as “good value” rather than affordable.
globular-toast 5y ago
At that price, if you are regularly commuting by train it would be cheaper and more convenient to have two bikes, one at either end. And you could have two pretty nice bikes. I guess the appeal of the folding bike is more for irregular or infrequent trips. Totally agree on the freedom aspect. Bicycles are ideal for inner city travel. Cars should be banned. I often use public bicycle shares when I travel now which is great because you don't even have to fold/carry or lock the bike up anywhere.
- bambax 5y ago
  > I guess the appeal of the folding bike is more for irregular or infrequent trips Yep, this is how I use it. I have another ebike for everyday use. Not sure about the two-bikes concept though, because long-term bike parking is still a huge problem, security-wise, esp. for ebikes.
  - globular-toast 5y ago
    Yeah, there needs to be more secure bike parking. A reallocation of space from car parking to bike parking is an obvious solution. In Cambridge there is a bike parking facility that I would feel confident leaving a bike in for long periods but not every station has such a thing. That being said, I know people who have done the two bikes thing, or at least one bike that "lives" at a railway station, for a long time and not aware of them having any problems.
  - ITWarrior 5y ago
    This depends on where you live of course, here in the Netherlands most big/well trafficked train stations have one or more secured bike parking. The NS (Dutch National Railway) sells a secured bike storage subscription starting from 75 euros a year. And you can do it cheaper if you use your bike frequently because at some stations the first 24 hours are free. And if you have a cheap bike that you use just for your commute you can also just put it in the free bike storage and only move it secured if you know you will be gone for >2 weeks or whatever the limit for free storage is.
    - 5y ago

by bambax 5y ago

teruakohatu 5y ago

I got a kick out of the banner at the top of the shop answering everyone's first concern which is "Why is the Kwiggle so affordable?" A clever way of answering the actual first question "why so expensive?"

noisy_boy 5y ago
They think its clever - I think most people would see through it and just be pissed. Not sure why companies think they can get away insulting the intelligence of their consumers (who, in this case, would have to be wealthy enough to afford their product and hence can be reasonably expected to be smart enough to spot it).
- WrtCdEvrydy 5y ago
  Because it's telling the customer that if you don't think it's affordable you're not the target market.
  - noisy_boy 5y ago
    Maybe - I can afford it while also having enough awareness that it is not affordable for most folks in general - I just find the glibness off putting.
kohlerm 5y ago
for a 10kg foldable bike it is certainly affordable. Most of them (if not all) are more expensive

gorbypark 5y ago

Did you use a conversion kit? I have an older Dahon I'm thinking of converting. Any tips?

bambax 5y ago
Yes, a motor + battery kit. It's really simple -- depending on the bike. For a folding bike you need to think ahead of where the engine and battery are going to go when folded. Mid-drive motors are much preferable, if possible (at the center of the bike, between the cranks). There are two Chinese brands for the engines: Bafang and Tongsheng. Bafang has a better reputation; I used a Bafang for my first conversion (a regular MTB). But Tongshengs, in addition to being a little more affordable, are true pedal assist: power is proportional to the force you put on the pedals. It's a different experience from Bafang, but pedal assist feels better on a small folding bike, IMHO. You can buy them on Aliexpress; look for vendors who have inventory in your country, which allows for faster shipping. Here's the final build: https://i.imgur.com/TBHHOc1.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/TBHHOc1.jpeg ... and on the road in Marseilles: https://imgur.com/a/B2mJ17E.jpeg https://imgur.com/a/B2mJ17E.jpeg
donjoe 5y ago
Look into velogical motors. Their tiny build size and removable battery should be a perfect fit. http://www.velogical-engineering.com/velospeeder/produktinformationen/ http://www.velogical-engineering.com/velospeeder/produktinfo...

makeitdouble 5y ago

Folding size would justify the price. The 200€ one won't help you if you need to fly it. Even for road trips, for 2 adults in a city car, the size constraints could be enough to not bring two biggish 200€ along. Basically, the choice comes to a 200€ bike you never bring along, or 800/1600€ bikes you can bring anywhere.

gitowiec 5y ago

Thank you for opening my eyes on the price... I'm just a simpleton

kwigglebike 5y ago

It is affordable for the workmanship and materials used. All stainless steel and aluminium.

bambax 5y ago
That's not what "affordable" means, sorry.
- MrKwiggle 5y ago
  thanks for your comment. we have adapted the translation on the page. Two of the most important advantages of a folding bike, namely the weight and the folding volume, are also the largest cost factors in the product price. The price is a matter of quality of material and manufacturing and number of parts. The lower the weight, the higher have to be the quality, the more compact, the more high-tech parts are required. the more expensive will be the bike. You can't produce a folding bike with only 10 kg and only 55 l of folded volume that can easily be ridden up to 25 km/h and is stable for people from 1,30 m to 1,95 m and up to 100 kg for prices below 2,000 euro, unless you produce 100,000 or more in a year or you sell directly to the customers.
gambiting 5y ago
By that measure an Audi R8 is affordable, after all it's literally just a Lamborghini Aventador in a much cheaper package, for the money it's an absolute bargain. As bambax said - that's not what affordable means. Affordable is all about whether the target market can afford it, not whether it's good value for the materials and work put in.
frakkingcylons 5y ago
If that’s what you mean, then think it’d be more accurate to describe it as “good value” rather than affordable.

globular-toast 5y ago

At that price, if you are regularly commuting by train it would be cheaper and more convenient to have two bikes, one at either end. And you could have two pretty nice bikes. I guess the appeal of the folding bike is more for irregular or infrequent trips. Totally agree on the freedom aspect. Bicycles are ideal for inner city travel. Cars should be banned. I often use public bicycle shares when I travel now which is great because you don't even have to fold/carry or lock the bike up anywhere.

bambax 5y ago
> I guess the appeal of the folding bike is more for irregular or infrequent trips Yep, this is how I use it. I have another ebike for everyday use. Not sure about the two-bikes concept though, because long-term bike parking is still a huge problem, security-wise, esp. for ebikes.
- globular-toast 5y ago
  Yeah, there needs to be more secure bike parking. A reallocation of space from car parking to bike parking is an obvious solution. In Cambridge there is a bike parking facility that I would feel confident leaving a bike in for long periods but not every station has such a thing. That being said, I know people who have done the two bikes thing, or at least one bike that "lives" at a railway station, for a long time and not aware of them having any problems.
- ITWarrior 5y ago
  This depends on where you live of course, here in the Netherlands most big/well trafficked train stations have one or more secured bike parking. The NS (Dutch National Railway) sells a secured bike storage subscription starting from 75 euros a year. And you can do it cheaper if you use your bike frequently because at some stations the first 24 hours are free. And if you have a cheap bike that you use just for your commute you can also just put it in the free bike storage and only move it secured if you know you will be gone for >2 weeks or whatever the limit for free storage is.
  - 5y ago