7 ms·

I think his notion of "disproportionate response to to speech" is a good start, but is too generic to help us understand why this has become an issue of discuss

I think his notion of "disproportionate response to to speech" is a good start, but is too generic to help us understand why this has become an issue of discussion over the past decade. When I think of cancel culture, my primary thought is of private individuals facing meaningful harms (mainly economic) as a result of public outcry over the individuals (perfectly legal) speech or actions that signal the individual is "on the wrong team". It's not a simple definition, but captures both why people are afraid of it, and why it is happening now (social media made it possible to make a private individual's speech and actions public, even if that individual wasn't a user of that platform). Public figures losing speaking engagements or whatever is bad, but the targeting of private individuals in this manner is an escalation of political conflict that is very alarming. Lastly, I will add that while this evil is not exclusively committed by the Left, there is absolutely an asymmetry. The Left has generally been far more likely to cancel people than the reverse. There are a number of possible causes (people on the left are more politically active, will be amplified by a left -leaning media industry, etc)

Misdicorl 5y ago
> The Left has generally been far more likely to cancel people than the reverse. There are a number of possible causes (people on the left are more politically active, will be amplified by a left -leaning media industry, etc) I think this is more neatly described by the right having more mainstream and surreptitious avenues of "cancelling" people they don't like. Gang lists, credit scores, police intimidation/brutality, selective enforcement of drug policy, the prison system, good ol' boys clubs, etc etc etc.
- lliamander 5y ago
  That grab-bag of issues suggests you have a confused notion of what constitutes "the right". For instance, how is police brutality a example of "right-wing cancel culture" when some of our most salient examples occurred in left-wing dominated cities? Not everything you disagree with is a political weapon used by your enemies. I will concede (though you didn't make this point explicitly) that the religious right has historically had a fair bit of social power that might be described as cancel culture, but that power has arguably been gone since before cancel culture as I described it became a thing.
  - dmix 5y ago
    It's pretty common in the New Left ideology to view any power structure as the opposition to progress and therefore the enemy (this was a big theme particularity from 1960s-1970s that heavily influenced progressives today). So any strong authority system like police and big companies are immediately 'right-wing'. This of course misses all the nuance in the spectrum of authoritarianism<->liberty found not only in right wing people but just as much among left-wing people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Left https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Left (note how they used to be the leaders in pro-free speech, which makes sense if you're opposed to authority, but that value has of course been lost on social media - to the dismay of many from the old-school left who fought hard for it)
    - zozbot234 5y ago
      > It's pretty common in the New Left ideology to view any power structure as the opposition to progress and therefore the enemy That was the old New Left. The New New Left is even more authoritarian than the Right used to be.
  - DangitBobby 5y ago
    I think religious beliefs largely underly payment processors' refusal to do business with porn websites, wouldn't you agree? If it weren't for Christian beliefs, advertisers wouldn't be worried about being associated with porn and payment processors wouldn't either. That's the first example that came to my head, but I'm sure there are many, many such examples of the right having true social power to eliminate speech and expression they don't agree with.
    - lliamander 5y ago
      Perhaps initially, though today any religious influence is merely the result of organizational interia, not genuine concern for the opinions of Christians. But I don't think that's the only reason. My thought is that there would be concern over connections to actual criminal activity (human trafficking, abuse, revenge porn, etc). I'm not saying all porn is those things, but I imagine it might be harder to be sure porn isn't connected to those things. Edit: I think pram probably has it right.

Misdicorl 5y ago

> The Left has generally been far more likely to cancel people than the reverse. There are a number of possible causes (people on the left are more politically active, will be amplified by a left -leaning media industry, etc) I think this is more neatly described by the right having more mainstream and surreptitious avenues of "cancelling" people they don't like. Gang lists, credit scores, police intimidation/brutality, selective enforcement of drug policy, the prison system, good ol' boys clubs, etc etc etc.

lliamander 5y ago
That grab-bag of issues suggests you have a confused notion of what constitutes "the right". For instance, how is police brutality a example of "right-wing cancel culture" when some of our most salient examples occurred in left-wing dominated cities? Not everything you disagree with is a political weapon used by your enemies. I will concede (though you didn't make this point explicitly) that the religious right has historically had a fair bit of social power that might be described as cancel culture, but that power has arguably been gone since before cancel culture as I described it became a thing.
- dmix 5y ago
  It's pretty common in the New Left ideology to view any power structure as the opposition to progress and therefore the enemy (this was a big theme particularity from 1960s-1970s that heavily influenced progressives today). So any strong authority system like police and big companies are immediately 'right-wing'. This of course misses all the nuance in the spectrum of authoritarianism<->liberty found not only in right wing people but just as much among left-wing people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Left https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Left (note how they used to be the leaders in pro-free speech, which makes sense if you're opposed to authority, but that value has of course been lost on social media - to the dismay of many from the old-school left who fought hard for it)
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    > It's pretty common in the New Left ideology to view any power structure as the opposition to progress and therefore the enemy That was the old New Left. The New New Left is even more authoritarian than the Right used to be.
- DangitBobby 5y ago
  I think religious beliefs largely underly payment processors' refusal to do business with porn websites, wouldn't you agree? If it weren't for Christian beliefs, advertisers wouldn't be worried about being associated with porn and payment processors wouldn't either. That's the first example that came to my head, but I'm sure there are many, many such examples of the right having true social power to eliminate speech and expression they don't agree with.
  - lliamander 5y ago
    Perhaps initially, though today any religious influence is merely the result of organizational interia, not genuine concern for the opinions of Christians. But I don't think that's the only reason. My thought is that there would be concern over connections to actual criminal activity (human trafficking, abuse, revenge porn, etc). I'm not saying all porn is those things, but I imagine it might be harder to be sure porn isn't connected to those things. Edit: I think pram probably has it right.