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> The opposite stance, not calling on people to end cancel culture, is also accepting a reduction in speech. I'm not sure that accepting certain spaces becomin

> The opposite stance, not calling on people to end cancel culture, is also accepting a reduction in speech. I'm not sure that accepting certain spaces becoming unwelcome is the same as a reduction in speech. The quote toward the end of the article really hits the nail on the head for me: > The room felt tense... I was shaken, but also determined to not silence myself. Still, the disdain of my fellow students stuck with me. I was a welcome member of the group — and then I wasn’t. Feeling tense and unwelcome in a space where people disagree with you is totally normal and to be expected. A huge fraction of people grow up feeling exactly like that in virtually every space they inhabit. (BTW, I'd be unsurprised if the tenseness in this case was more about annoyance with a loudmouth once again derailing a seminar with what they think is profoundly courageous iconoclasm but is actually annoying low-effort culture war trolling that's spoiling a quite expensive educational product for the rest of the paying customers...) I grew up non-straight and atheist in the midwest, decades ago, and not in a city. The feeling of tenseness described here is totally normal. Gays are not entitled to a complete absence of tenseness in midwest churches or sports bars. That tenseness and unwelcomeness will result in lost opportunities for socialization, employment, etc. even without overt discrimination. Not everyone will feel comfortable in every space. Not everyone will fit in everywhere. That's life. It seems like literally everyone except a certain brand of conservative hothead understands this. To me, the entire cancel culture thing can be summed up as: "apparently some people went through a lot of life without ever desiring to inhabit a space where they weren't 100% welcome and, unsurprisingly, react in an emotionally stunted and frankly embarrassing way when encountering this situation." IDK. Half the country -- and a much larger percentage of its landmass -- is wholly hostile to anyone who isn't a died-in-the-wool conservative. Whence the entitlement to also fit in perfectly everywhere else with zero friction? As a queer person, I don't even have that much sympathy for fellow queer people who try to get along in conservative religious communities. You have a right to free association. If you don't like feeling tense and unwelcome, exercise that right. If you choose to inhabit spaces where you aren't welcome... well, I can sympathize up to a point, but I'm mostly going to roll my eyes if you complain too much.

Karrot_Kream 5y ago
I'm going to preface this by saying that I'm a dark-skinned POC straight man that grew up in poverty (and that in the SFBA I feel like a unicorn, especially in my climbing gym where sometimes I'm the only dark-skinned POC for my entire workout). > Feeling tense and unwelcome in a space where people disagree with you is totally normal and to be expected. A huge fraction of people grow up feeling exactly like that in virtually every space they inhabit. I grew up very used to the idea of feeling unwelcome because of my skin color. I didn't and still do not feel the most comfortable in many spaces. That uncomfortability has made me keenly aware at how alienating the feeling is. When I see other people feel uncomfortable, I don't think "good now you feel how it's like to be me", I feel that humanity has lost yet another victim to intolerance. I do not think that normalizing this feeling helps anyone, even if the person feeling this pain is a straight, white man. Moreover when someone hates me for my skin color (and perceived behaviors associated with my skin color), I certainly become uncomfortable and angry, but at the end of the day I realize it's something I cannot fundamentally change. My skin color and body type will stay with me for the rest of my life. But when people become uncomfortable by _my ideas_ that's what hurts more; I feel that people disapprove of the fruits of my own agency. It's why I've always felt so keenly for transgender folk who endure endless discrimination for simply choosing how to live their own lives.
- throwawaygh 5y ago
  > I certainly become uncomfortable and angry, but at the end of the day I realize it's something I cannot fundamentally change. This is the point on which we agree. When I say >> Feeling tense and unwelcome in a space where people disagree with you is totally normal and to be expected. A huge fraction of people grow up feeling exactly like that in virtually every space they inhabit. I'm not excusing intolerance. I'm simply saying in my own way what I quoted from you above. One must choose: either avoid discomfort or grow some callouses. As far as I can tell a lot of the noise around cancel culture is from folks who were climbing 5.12 in a soft gym and are now demanding the guidebook author soften the grades because they can barely huff up a 5.9. The ground shifted and they aren't willing to put in the work but feel entitled to the send. Is the area sandbagged? Sure. Does that suck? Sure. We can commiserate for a bit. But eventually I expect that the complainer will either suck it up, leave, or write their own book. Endless complaining about not being comfortable in all circumstances eventually becomes tiresome and comes off as entitled.

Karrot_Kream 5y ago

I'm going to preface this by saying that I'm a dark-skinned POC straight man that grew up in poverty (and that in the SFBA I feel like a unicorn, especially in my climbing gym where sometimes I'm the only dark-skinned POC for my entire workout). > Feeling tense and unwelcome in a space where people disagree with you is totally normal and to be expected. A huge fraction of people grow up feeling exactly like that in virtually every space they inhabit. I grew up very used to the idea of feeling unwelcome because of my skin color. I didn't and still do not feel the most comfortable in many spaces. That uncomfortability has made me keenly aware at how alienating the feeling is. When I see other people feel uncomfortable, I don't think "good now you feel how it's like to be me", I feel that humanity has lost yet another victim to intolerance. I do not think that normalizing this feeling helps anyone, even if the person feeling this pain is a straight, white man. Moreover when someone hates me for my skin color (and perceived behaviors associated with my skin color), I certainly become uncomfortable and angry, but at the end of the day I realize it's something I cannot fundamentally change. My skin color and body type will stay with me for the rest of my life. But when people become uncomfortable by _my ideas_ that's what hurts more; I feel that people disapprove of the fruits of my own agency. It's why I've always felt so keenly for transgender folk who endure endless discrimination for simply choosing how to live their own lives.

throwawaygh 5y ago
> I certainly become uncomfortable and angry, but at the end of the day I realize it's something I cannot fundamentally change. This is the point on which we agree. When I say >> Feeling tense and unwelcome in a space where people disagree with you is totally normal and to be expected. A huge fraction of people grow up feeling exactly like that in virtually every space they inhabit. I'm not excusing intolerance. I'm simply saying in my own way what I quoted from you above. One must choose: either avoid discomfort or grow some callouses. As far as I can tell a lot of the noise around cancel culture is from folks who were climbing 5.12 in a soft gym and are now demanding the guidebook author soften the grades because they can barely huff up a 5.9. The ground shifted and they aren't willing to put in the work but feel entitled to the send. Is the area sandbagged? Sure. Does that suck? Sure. We can commiserate for a bit. But eventually I expect that the complainer will either suck it up, leave, or write their own book. Endless complaining about not being comfortable in all circumstances eventually becomes tiresome and comes off as entitled.