5 ms·
That's a lot of words to say "people are free to steer clear of people they don't like and always have been". And not much of thought into "what changed that no
by lrem 5y ago
That's a lot of words to say "people are free to steer clear of people they don't like and always have been". And not much of thought into "what changed that now it is a problem perceived by some?"
There has been a fundamental change to our reality over the past couple decades: things you say and do are now by default in public and permanent record. If your not-too-famous grandpa said something outrageous, he ruined the relationship with the people that heard it and the people they talked to. In the worst case it went into a filler column of the local newspaper. He had a limited number of people to apologise to. And in the worst case could move to another town and start fresh.
If you write an outrageous blog post today, you're hosed. Even if you're not famous, or in any other way a "public figure". But just because your outrageous writing (or second-hand - someone else writing about a thing you said) is in public record today, you will find that some people in the far future will get offended by it. You get hired in 20 years as a VP of a large company in another country? Well, someone will dig up that post and before you know it you're out of a job. Saying sorry and that you're wiser now, than when you were a teenager, is likely not going to help. Bonus points if what you wrote is within the mainstream today, but the cultural norms move in the following decades.
I think that's a problem. But it cannot be solved by laws. Right to be forgotten won't work well enough (just a hunch, but international enforcement of soft issues like this doesn't have a reassuring track record). Nor by telling people they have to listen to jerks. That's what the OP deconstructs as obviously absurd. What we need is to build into our culture and understanding that people do change and can reach redemption.
- TameAntelope 5y ago> If you write an outrageous blog post today, you're hosed. This just isn’t true, and I’m not sure why the discussion around cancel culture is framed like it is true. It’s exceedingly hard to be cancelled if you’re acting genuinely, kindly, and with empathy for the topic you’re discussing. You can say literally anything you want if you can figure out how to be nice when you say it, but you do have to put real effort into that endeavor. Getting canceled isn’t a landmine, it’s a tar pit.
- letmeiiin 5y agoSometime it's basically impossible to nicely say that something is just moronic.
- TameAntelope 5y agoSufficiently talented communicators more or less only have these "cancel culture" problems through choice, not through inability to express themselves. Which is honestly why I have little sympathy for the "cancelled", in many cases. Occasionally, I do feel a pang of empathy for people like Gina Carano, for example, who genuinely don't seem to know how to say what they want to, and may not have intentionally wanted to harm others, but through ego end up refusing to reword their expression or to account for how their words might hurt others. It's a small pang, and not a long lasting one. I can see how the confusion might happen, but even for the least articulate among us there are clean off-ramps that get ignored.
- cowuser666 5y agono chilling effects here..
- TameAntelope 5y agoMy point is cancel culture is not very chilling if you're a competent speaker/writer, and it ought to be even less chilling than it is (possibly not chilling at all). If you believe you're entering a conversation with positive intent, a genuine point of view, and empathy for others, you are more or less immune to being cancelled.
- Banana699 5y ago>If you believe you're entering a conversation with positive intent, a genuine point of view, and empathy for others, you are more or less immune to being cancelled Any sufficiently selective style guide is indistinguishable from a censor. It's bizarrely hilarious how "Progressives" mirror religious fundamentalists, down to the particular language used to dispel accusations of censorship and closed-mindedness. "You can say whatever you like, just in ways we like (which will sometimes include you shutting up entirely)" looks painfully familiar for any closeted atheist.
- stale2002 5y ago> I think that's a problem. But it cannot be solved by laws. I actually think that there is a solution that not many people have mentioned. What we can do is actually fund enforcement of the actual really bad stuff that people do during these hate/harrassement type situations. And by that I mean, when people make death threats against someone, or harassment or target them in a similar way, then you have a government run doxxing squad that finds out who sent the death threats, and they arrest them, send them to jail, and put a felony on their record, even if it is a 1 time/first offense. Right now, if you send a bunch of deaths threats to people, you'll probably get away with it. But if the government actually enforced the law, and sent you to prison, the first time you did that to anybody, well I think the worst of the "cancel culture" type harassment would end really quick.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- tootie 5y agoWhat changed is politics. One side of the political spectrum was tired of being called out for unacceptable speech that they didn't understand and decided they could make hay by stirring up a fresh culture war. They've discovered that they can be offensive and hateful then blame "cancel culture" when they get called out and gain favor with their base.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]