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Samsung G9 is for sale now, and it pushes 5120x1440 at 240Hz without subsampling through DisplayPort 1.4, which is the exact same pixel rate as 5120x2880 at 120

Samsung G9 is for sale now, and it pushes 5120x1440 at 240Hz without subsampling through DisplayPort 1.4, which is the exact same pixel rate as 5120x2880 at 120Hz.

searls 5y ago
Important to note that this is a 110dpi monitor and therefore not retina nor suitable for integer resolution scaling, whereas the Studio Display is 218dpi. I care a lot more about resolution and dot pitch than about frame rates higher than 60hz
- noahtallen 5y ago
  That’s fair, but the overall point is that Apple could have added a standard connector (normal Display Port) without sacrificing quality.
  - fckgw 5y ago
    Why would Apple add a connector that none of their computers use?
    - function_seven 5y ago
      So people like me would consider buying it. I have a Mac. I also have a work-issued PC. I have both machines connected to the same displays, and switch between them. DisplayPort isn't some obsolete technology here. I understand why this display doesn't have HDMI, or DVI, or VGA, or Composite, or S-Video, etc. But DisplayPort would be nice.
      - stanmancan 5y ago
        Apple hasn't been in the business of selling you things to use on non-Apple devices for a very... very long time.
      - gumby 5y ago
        > DisplayPort isn't some obsolete technology here...DisplayPort would be nice. Type C is one of the standard interfaces for the Displayport standard, and Displayport is the standard video transport on a thunderbolt cable.
        technobabbler 5y ago
        ...so, wait, DisplayPort is really more like DisplayProtocol, but there's also a physical port called DisplayPort? :(
        ThreePinkApples 5y ago
        That's how data cables/ports work. There is a DisplayPort "protocol", then there are DisplayPort physical connectors and cables. Then there are other types of physical connectors and cables that also can be used with DisplayPort "protocol". Same thing for USB, or HDMI etc. Yes, it's confusing. But it's also a good thing as you can carry lots of stuff over the same cable and connector. A USB-C type cable and connector can carry USB, Thunderbolt, DisplayPort, HDMI, even analogue audio. Before USB-C, Thunderbolt was using mini-DisplaPort connector and cables.
      - technobabbler 5y ago
        I don't think Apple really wants you to buy their monitor for use on a PC. It's just a support headache, between the cables and graphics cards and refresh rates and gamma and such. Everything on the product page suggests it was only designed for Mac: https://www.apple.com/studio-display/ https://www.apple.com/studio-display/ That it happens to work on a PC at all is, I guess, an unintentional side effect that they'd rather not even acknowledge. You can try it unsupported but it's not their problem... They've never been good at supporting standards not invented there. Hell, ever tried to use a Magic Mouse with a PC? Everything about it feels completely off. Part of me wonders if subtle incompatibilities, where hardware works 80% of the way, is maybe even part of their deliberate strategy to introduce small headaches to the PC experience to frustrate you into switching. (Of course OSX has its own share of frustrations too, but nothing like using PC hardware on a Mac or vice versa).
    - manicdee 5y ago
      Same reason Dell adds USB-C, DP, HDMI to their monitors: so you can use their product in preference to someone else’s. Buy the Apple monitor, be impressed, buy the Studio to go with it.
  - jolux 5y ago
    Thunderbolt 4 is a standard interface, and it supports DisplayPort 1.4 as well as 2.0.
    - noahtallen 5y ago
      That’s a good point — what I meant was that the DP connector found on graphics cards is pretty common (“standard”), so should be included. As a frame of reference, a similarly priced monitor I have has 2x HDMI, DisplayPort, thunderbolt 3, and a few USB A ports if you use it as a thunderbolt hub. And it’s a 144hz ultrawide with HDR support. And while I acknowledge that Apple made a trade off for pixel density, they weren’t forced to make tradeoffs for other features that are common on high end monitors.
      - jolux 5y ago
        > the DP connector found on graphics cards is pretty common (“standard”) So are D-sub connectors and HDMI. Should it have those as well? What about S-Video? Composite? > they weren’t forced to make tradeoffs for other features that are common on high end monitors They don't sell any products with DisplayPort connectors, nor do I think they've ever done so (certainly not recently). Selling a product with that connector is a commitment on some level to supporting what people plug into it, and as demonstrated by the OP, PCs are not really supported. It's also more engineering effort, but that's probably marginal. This is a standard connector with cheap cables that adapt it to legacy devices using the DP alternate mode of USB-C. Apple are known for getting rid of legacy connectors. USB-C is a superior technology, it's only a matter of time before it's used for everything, and I appreciate Apple's efforts to hasten that day.
- hbn 5y ago
  I have one and somehow managed to get it into a mode where the UI was an appropriate size and it ran at 120Hz. Worked perfectly for almost a year, then I updated to Monterey and cannot for the life of me get it to run in HiDPI mode at my old preferred scaling. Tried all the third party monitor controlling apps (EasyRes doesn't have the scaling I'd like in the HiDPI list of resolutions) I might just get rid of the monitor. I'm not convinced I loved it for my workflow anyway compared to 2 monitors where I can switch my Mac workspaces independently
- alwillis 5y ago
  Yes—give me the resolution vs refresh rate if I have to pick.
- account42 5y ago
  110dpi can work without any scaling depending on your eyesight.
naoqj 5y ago
1440p for 49" in 2022? You can probably pick the pixels with your fingers.
- cehrlich 5y ago
  I don't think the person you're replying to was comparing those two monitors, just pointing out that 5120x2880 at 120hz is the same amount of data as 5120x1440 at 240hz.
- ihuman 5y ago
  It's an ultrawide, so its really two 1440p 26" screens next to each other
  - naoqj 5y ago
    Doesn't change anything at all. It's a shame that they are selling that. And it costs 1600€! It's insane.
    - nohr 5y ago
      That renders your complain null and void, what's wrong with you?
    - Rebelgecko 5y ago
      Are there any alternatives you'd recommend? When last I looked I was surprised how limited the options were for 2160p + higher refresh rates (I guess maybe cables/ports/GPUs need time to catch up?)
      - ninkendo 5y ago
        Unfortunately there are no monitors sold by any company other than Apple (and LG for that one 5K display they made specifically _for_ apple) that have a “retina” pixel density, which I would define as >200 PPI. (The Studio Display’s is 218.) Every ginormous “4k2k” or whatever display is just that: ginormous, so the actual pixel density is much lower, and is comparable to a typical (smaller, 1440p, etc) display. I suspect this is because the fabrication of the LCDs is tuned to a particular pixel size, so if a company wants to make a 4K monitor, they scale existing LCD production up to a large enough size that they can get it 2160 pixels tall (by however wide), and that’s the size of the display. They can advertise having both a large display (which people like) and 4K (which people like), so there’s no downside to the manufacturers. But if you want actual high pixel density, 200+PPI, your options are basically an Apple monitor (LG’s apple-sold display notwithstanding), or a smartphone. (I’d love to be proven wrong on this! My holy grail monitor is 200+ppi, 120+Hz, large (27”+), and ideally ultrawide, but alas, such a thing doesn’t exist.)
frankchn 5y ago
Does it use Display Stream Compression or something? Raw 5120x1440 x 240 fps x 8 bits x 3 colors = 39.55 Gbits/sec. DP1.4 has a maximum data rate of 25.92 Gbits/sec. DP2.0 on the other hand does 77.37 Gbits/sec.
artimaeis 5y ago
The Samsung G9 is only capable of achieving 240Hz with display stream compression (DSC). Source: https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/samsung/odyssey-g9 https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/samsung/odyssey-g9.
- cehrlich 5y ago
  Apple's $5000+ Pro Display XDR uses DSC when you plug stuff into the rear USB ports, so I think it would be fine to use it on the Studio Display also.
  - brigade 5y ago
    Even without anything plugged in, or any other displays downstream of the host thunderbolt port, XDR will preferentially negotiate one HBR2+DSC stream if the host supports it. (17.28gbps) Which yes, means that a hypothetical 6k120 could be done at the same compression level as current 6k60 by using both HBR2 streams that a Thunderbolt 4 host port is required to support.
    - radicality 5y ago
      Hey, would you have some details/info on how I can figure out what exactly my XDR is ‘doing’ (find its connection type like you explained, and pixel depth that the graphics card is outputting - 8 bit vs 10 bit). I have the M1 Max 14”, and also bought the XDR around a month ago for the extra 6k screen real estate. One thing I noticed is that I can’t figure out what pixel depth it’s running at on my M1 (intel shows 30 bit framebuffer in System Report, M1 shows nothing). SwitchResX software is reporting that it’s running in “Millions of Colors” (8 bit), but I’m not sure if that’s true. The same setup is reporting Billions of Colors on an intel MacBook. It overall seems to be there’s things missing for the XDR <-> M1 interactions :S
- liquidise 5y ago
  DSC was arguably the hallmark change of DisplayPort 1.4[1]. To say something is "only capable of achieving" its performance by utilizing the very tech it is built on feels like there has been a misunderstanding somewhere. To be clear, Display Stream Compression is different from Chroma Subsampling[2], which the parent referenced. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort#1.4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort#1.4 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

Samsung G9 is for sale now, and it pushes 5120x1440 at 240Hz without subsampling through DisplayPort 1.4, which is the exact same pixel rate as 5120x2880 at 120Hz.

searls 5y ago

Important to note that this is a 110dpi monitor and therefore not retina nor suitable for integer resolution scaling, whereas the Studio Display is 218dpi. I care a lot more about resolution and dot pitch than about frame rates higher than 60hz

noahtallen 5y ago
That’s fair, but the overall point is that Apple could have added a standard connector (normal Display Port) without sacrificing quality.
- fckgw 5y ago
  Why would Apple add a connector that none of their computers use?
  - function_seven 5y ago
    So people like me would consider buying it. I have a Mac. I also have a work-issued PC. I have both machines connected to the same displays, and switch between them. DisplayPort isn't some obsolete technology here. I understand why this display doesn't have HDMI, or DVI, or VGA, or Composite, or S-Video, etc. But DisplayPort would be nice.
    - stanmancan 5y ago
      Apple hasn't been in the business of selling you things to use on non-Apple devices for a very... very long time.
    - gumby 5y ago
      > DisplayPort isn't some obsolete technology here...DisplayPort would be nice. Type C is one of the standard interfaces for the Displayport standard, and Displayport is the standard video transport on a thunderbolt cable.
      - technobabbler 5y ago
        ...so, wait, DisplayPort is really more like DisplayProtocol, but there's also a physical port called DisplayPort? :(
        ThreePinkApples 5y ago
        That's how data cables/ports work. There is a DisplayPort "protocol", then there are DisplayPort physical connectors and cables. Then there are other types of physical connectors and cables that also can be used with DisplayPort "protocol". Same thing for USB, or HDMI etc. Yes, it's confusing. But it's also a good thing as you can carry lots of stuff over the same cable and connector. A USB-C type cable and connector can carry USB, Thunderbolt, DisplayPort, HDMI, even analogue audio. Before USB-C, Thunderbolt was using mini-DisplaPort connector and cables.
    - technobabbler 5y ago
      I don't think Apple really wants you to buy their monitor for use on a PC. It's just a support headache, between the cables and graphics cards and refresh rates and gamma and such. Everything on the product page suggests it was only designed for Mac: https://www.apple.com/studio-display/ https://www.apple.com/studio-display/ That it happens to work on a PC at all is, I guess, an unintentional side effect that they'd rather not even acknowledge. You can try it unsupported but it's not their problem... They've never been good at supporting standards not invented there. Hell, ever tried to use a Magic Mouse with a PC? Everything about it feels completely off. Part of me wonders if subtle incompatibilities, where hardware works 80% of the way, is maybe even part of their deliberate strategy to introduce small headaches to the PC experience to frustrate you into switching. (Of course OSX has its own share of frustrations too, but nothing like using PC hardware on a Mac or vice versa).
  - manicdee 5y ago
    Same reason Dell adds USB-C, DP, HDMI to their monitors: so you can use their product in preference to someone else’s. Buy the Apple monitor, be impressed, buy the Studio to go with it.
- jolux 5y ago
  Thunderbolt 4 is a standard interface, and it supports DisplayPort 1.4 as well as 2.0.
  - noahtallen 5y ago
    That’s a good point — what I meant was that the DP connector found on graphics cards is pretty common (“standard”), so should be included. As a frame of reference, a similarly priced monitor I have has 2x HDMI, DisplayPort, thunderbolt 3, and a few USB A ports if you use it as a thunderbolt hub. And it’s a 144hz ultrawide with HDR support. And while I acknowledge that Apple made a trade off for pixel density, they weren’t forced to make tradeoffs for other features that are common on high end monitors.
    - jolux 5y ago
      > the DP connector found on graphics cards is pretty common (“standard”) So are D-sub connectors and HDMI. Should it have those as well? What about S-Video? Composite? > they weren’t forced to make tradeoffs for other features that are common on high end monitors They don't sell any products with DisplayPort connectors, nor do I think they've ever done so (certainly not recently). Selling a product with that connector is a commitment on some level to supporting what people plug into it, and as demonstrated by the OP, PCs are not really supported. It's also more engineering effort, but that's probably marginal. This is a standard connector with cheap cables that adapt it to legacy devices using the DP alternate mode of USB-C. Apple are known for getting rid of legacy connectors. USB-C is a superior technology, it's only a matter of time before it's used for everything, and I appreciate Apple's efforts to hasten that day.
hbn 5y ago
I have one and somehow managed to get it into a mode where the UI was an appropriate size and it ran at 120Hz. Worked perfectly for almost a year, then I updated to Monterey and cannot for the life of me get it to run in HiDPI mode at my old preferred scaling. Tried all the third party monitor controlling apps (EasyRes doesn't have the scaling I'd like in the HiDPI list of resolutions) I might just get rid of the monitor. I'm not convinced I loved it for my workflow anyway compared to 2 monitors where I can switch my Mac workspaces independently
alwillis 5y ago
Yes—give me the resolution vs refresh rate if I have to pick.
account42 5y ago
110dpi can work without any scaling depending on your eyesight.

naoqj 5y ago

1440p for 49" in 2022? You can probably pick the pixels with your fingers.

cehrlich 5y ago
I don't think the person you're replying to was comparing those two monitors, just pointing out that 5120x2880 at 120hz is the same amount of data as 5120x1440 at 240hz.
ihuman 5y ago
It's an ultrawide, so its really two 1440p 26" screens next to each other
- naoqj 5y ago
  Doesn't change anything at all. It's a shame that they are selling that. And it costs 1600€! It's insane.
  - nohr 5y ago
    That renders your complain null and void, what's wrong with you?
  - Rebelgecko 5y ago
    Are there any alternatives you'd recommend? When last I looked I was surprised how limited the options were for 2160p + higher refresh rates (I guess maybe cables/ports/GPUs need time to catch up?)
    - ninkendo 5y ago
      Unfortunately there are no monitors sold by any company other than Apple (and LG for that one 5K display they made specifically _for_ apple) that have a “retina” pixel density, which I would define as >200 PPI. (The Studio Display’s is 218.) Every ginormous “4k2k” or whatever display is just that: ginormous, so the actual pixel density is much lower, and is comparable to a typical (smaller, 1440p, etc) display. I suspect this is because the fabrication of the LCDs is tuned to a particular pixel size, so if a company wants to make a 4K monitor, they scale existing LCD production up to a large enough size that they can get it 2160 pixels tall (by however wide), and that’s the size of the display. They can advertise having both a large display (which people like) and 4K (which people like), so there’s no downside to the manufacturers. But if you want actual high pixel density, 200+PPI, your options are basically an Apple monitor (LG’s apple-sold display notwithstanding), or a smartphone. (I’d love to be proven wrong on this! My holy grail monitor is 200+ppi, 120+Hz, large (27”+), and ideally ultrawide, but alas, such a thing doesn’t exist.)

frankchn 5y ago

Does it use Display Stream Compression or something? Raw 5120x1440 x 240 fps x 8 bits x 3 colors = 39.55 Gbits/sec. DP1.4 has a maximum data rate of 25.92 Gbits/sec. DP2.0 on the other hand does 77.37 Gbits/sec.

artimaeis 5y ago

The Samsung G9 is only capable of achieving 240Hz with display stream compression (DSC). Source: https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/samsung/odyssey-g9 https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/samsung/odyssey-g9.

cehrlich 5y ago
Apple's $5000+ Pro Display XDR uses DSC when you plug stuff into the rear USB ports, so I think it would be fine to use it on the Studio Display also.
- brigade 5y ago
  Even without anything plugged in, or any other displays downstream of the host thunderbolt port, XDR will preferentially negotiate one HBR2+DSC stream if the host supports it. (17.28gbps) Which yes, means that a hypothetical 6k120 could be done at the same compression level as current 6k60 by using both HBR2 streams that a Thunderbolt 4 host port is required to support.
  - radicality 5y ago
    Hey, would you have some details/info on how I can figure out what exactly my XDR is ‘doing’ (find its connection type like you explained, and pixel depth that the graphics card is outputting - 8 bit vs 10 bit). I have the M1 Max 14”, and also bought the XDR around a month ago for the extra 6k screen real estate. One thing I noticed is that I can’t figure out what pixel depth it’s running at on my M1 (intel shows 30 bit framebuffer in System Report, M1 shows nothing). SwitchResX software is reporting that it’s running in “Millions of Colors” (8 bit), but I’m not sure if that’s true. The same setup is reporting Billions of Colors on an intel MacBook. It overall seems to be there’s things missing for the XDR <-> M1 interactions :S
liquidise 5y ago
DSC was arguably the hallmark change of DisplayPort 1.4[1]. To say something is "only capable of achieving" its performance by utilizing the very tech it is built on feels like there has been a misunderstanding somewhere. To be clear, Display Stream Compression is different from Chroma Subsampling[2], which the parent referenced. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort#1.4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort#1.4 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]