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>There exists a disparity between men and women when it comes to sentencing There exists a disparity between men and women when it comes to behavior, which is

>There exists a disparity between men and women when it comes to sentencing There exists a disparity between men and women when it comes to behavior, which is reflected in sentencing. This is the key component that people are unwilling to acknowledge because they have been conditioned to express a visceral reaction to anything remotely appearing to suggest differences in behavior/decisionmaking among demographics. Which, again, leads us to the invalid assertion that all differences in outcome are born of unequal treatment; invalid because the other half of the answer is socially taboo.

etchalon 5y ago
Your argument is basically "outcomes are worse for black people because black people deserve it and no one wants to say that." Not sure where to start with that.
- twofornone 5y ago
  No, my argument is that outcomes are worse for some subsets of black people because they are more likely to make decisions which put them in conflict with the legal system. Which is an objective, statistically supported fact, and even if you want to shift to poverty as a scapegoat, that still is primarily expressed through culture and ultimately up to the individual to change. "Deserve" is a loaded term, a moral judgement and has no actual bearing on this argument. And let's also acknowledge that not all blacks in the US have these problems, Nigerian immigrants are one of the most successful demographics in the country by all measures, despite the supposed abundance of racism holding all other African Americans back.
  - etchalon 5y ago
    You can restate your argument however you'd like, but my summary holds. That the Nigerian Diaspora is relatively successful, especially when compared to the native population isn't shocking when we remember that most "legal" immigrant communities are more successful than the native population. That disparity generally disappears by the third or fourth generation. Turns out the process of immigration is a fairly good self-selection process [0]. But, the differences between immigrant groups has a racial component too. I've not done enough in depth reading on the disparity (mostly summaries from other people I vaguely remember), but I do often think about Gladwell's piece "Black like them" [1] when the topic comes up. Definitely something I need to read more about. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/28/upshot/immigration-america-rise-poor.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/28/upshot/immigration-americ... [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20110514033755/http://www.gladwell.com/1996/1996_04_29_a_black.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20110514033755/http://www.gladwe...
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etchalon 5y ago

Your argument is basically "outcomes are worse for black people because black people deserve it and no one wants to say that." Not sure where to start with that.

twofornone 5y ago
No, my argument is that outcomes are worse for some subsets of black people because they are more likely to make decisions which put them in conflict with the legal system. Which is an objective, statistically supported fact, and even if you want to shift to poverty as a scapegoat, that still is primarily expressed through culture and ultimately up to the individual to change. "Deserve" is a loaded term, a moral judgement and has no actual bearing on this argument. And let's also acknowledge that not all blacks in the US have these problems, Nigerian immigrants are one of the most successful demographics in the country by all measures, despite the supposed abundance of racism holding all other African Americans back.
- etchalon 5y ago
  You can restate your argument however you'd like, but my summary holds. That the Nigerian Diaspora is relatively successful, especially when compared to the native population isn't shocking when we remember that most "legal" immigrant communities are more successful than the native population. That disparity generally disappears by the third or fourth generation. Turns out the process of immigration is a fairly good self-selection process [0]. But, the differences between immigrant groups has a racial component too. I've not done enough in depth reading on the disparity (mostly summaries from other people I vaguely remember), but I do often think about Gladwell's piece "Black like them" [1] when the topic comes up. Definitely something I need to read more about. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/28/upshot/immigration-america-rise-poor.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/28/upshot/immigration-americ... [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20110514033755/http://www.gladwell.com/1996/1996_04_29_a_black.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20110514033755/http://www.gladwe...
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