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> I don't even think that's a bad outcome per-se. Very few people could truthfully report that they've never broken the traffic law in a similar manner even onc
by HWR_14 5y ago
> I don't even think that's a bad outcome per-se. Very few people could truthfully report that they've never broken the traffic law in a similar manner even once.
I've never run over anyone, no. [Edit: The next paragraph addresses the concept of moral risk raised by the parent. Maybe this was a bad opening line, as it seemed to be the only thing responded to.]
It's unclear from your link what the person did. But, in general, hitting and killing three people requires unsafe driving that I've never done. And, to preempt the false analogy, I've certainly broken traffic laws. But I don't think I've ever driven unsafely while doing so.
It's also worth noticing that that person never even apologized. That's horrible.
> Now, imagine the same outcome, except this time the CEO of Tesla or Mercedes is going to have to answer in court for it. "Mr. Musk, why isn't your company paying out these parents fairly?"
Why wouldn't he be able to pay the parents fairly? Either (a) he fundamentally mispriced self-driving cars (in which case he should lose money) (b) his self-driving cars were worse than he expected (in which case he should lose money) or (c) he correctly accounted for risk in pricing, in which case the payouts are already baked in as a cost of doing business.
In the event of (c), it's very similar to other insurance products. Everyone pays some extra to cover the inevitable rare but serious failures.
Yes, I oppose any set of laws that allows Tesla to walk away from a fatal car accident caused by their self-driving without at the very least an appropriate civil punishment.
- avar 5y ago> I've never run over anyone, no. The point is that you could have if circumstances beyond your control were different. The concept of "moral luck" is about people having drastically different moral outcomes for similar actions, mostly due to getting unlucky. E.g. most people who own a cell phone and drive cars have probably broken the laws stating that you shouldn't operate your cellphone without using the appropriate hands-free equipment. I certainly have at least. I know I shouldn't do it, and I can truthfully say it's not a thing I "do". I know about the dangers involved. But has it happened? Yes, and I'm not proud of it. But nothing's bad has ever happened to me as a result, but there's some person somewhere where the first time they looked at their cellphone beeping the driver's seat they drove over someone and killed them. Can we say that I'm a better person because that hasn't happened to me? I don't think so, I just happen to have good moral luck (so far).
- HWR_14 5y agoI understand what you're talking about. As I said, I've broken traffic laws, but never in an unsafe manner that relied on luck not to kill three people. I reject your binary "if you broke any laws, you were equally likely to kill someone". I've observed my surroundings and took what I considered to be safe actions. I also try to apologize when I make mistakes. I don't feel that the person took appropriate care in the way a reasonable person did. But the article was unclear. Why don't you react by citing the specifics instead of doubling down on the bigger general point, since I disagree that it was moral luck in this case, not with the concept.
- libraryatnight 5y agoI don't believe for a millisecond no mistake you've ever made couldn't have had a drastically different outcome. This notion you seem to have that you are completely aware of every variable in every situation you've ever been in is absurd.
- HWR_14 5y agoI've never claimed I never made a mistake that couldn't have had a drastically different outcome. But I don't believe I've ever driven in a way that could have killed 3 pedestrians without some aspect of the vehicle failing. I've repeatedly asked for details of the "totally relatable because we all do it" accident. But yes, I've avoided failures through luck. That's just a different failure state. I admit that moral luck it totally a thing (although I am using the other poster's phrasing, not familiar with that term.) And certainly I've avoided car accidents like that. But not hitting pedestrians.