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how does stopping selling food in russia punish putin exactly? he’ll just have to switch to eating only the finest caviar domestically sourced instead of cereal

how does stopping selling food in russia punish putin exactly? he’ll just have to switch to eating only the finest caviar domestically sourced instead of cereals? I find it morally questionable that all these corps stopped business in Russia. like Western Union. how does blocking payments between relatives punish Putin or force him to change course? if anything, all these punishments will unite all Russians behind Putin

sfe22 5y ago
Putin represents the Russian people just like Biden the Americans. How he got there is irrelevant, he represents and owns Russia/Russians, and they are fine with it. They chose authoritarianism and got a questionable tyrant. Now they gotta deal with it.
- supergirl 5y ago
  Russians have hardship engrained. War is always a fear for them because of what theu’ve been through in WW2. They will not renounce Putin so easily because they believe him when he says this is to avoid a bigger war with NATO
  - mint2 5y ago
    Doing his best to start a war with nato short of literally attacking nato is a weird way to avoid a war with nato. I’m not convinced Putin cares much whether there is a war with nato. Nato is only an issue to modern Russia due to Putin’s ingrained confrontational attitude towards nato from the Cold War but more so his liberal use of nato and the west as a foil to maintain his domestic power.
    - unmole 5y ago
      > Nato is only an issue to modern Russia due to Putin’s ingrained confrontational attitude towards nato from the Cold War There's no moral justification for what's happening in Ukraine but pretending that expansion of NATO doesn't pose a strategic risk for Russia is intellectually dishonest.
- netsharc 5y ago
  "Mr. Bin Laden, how do you justify killing civilian Americans?" In fact it seems that defense is better for Bin Laden because America has free and fair elections as well as free press (terms and conditions may apply), in Russia there's no free press, opposition candidates are thrown either into jail or out of windows, and elections are rigged. It'd be like being mad at the neighbor's toddlers because their dad is an asshole who's terrorizing the neighborhood: what can the toddlers do?
  - sfe22 5y ago
    For all I know Bin Laden was also elected “fair and free”. The problem is the power is not in the people but a select few, even in “democratic” America. The toddler comparison does not make a lot of sense. Most Russians and Americans are just as able bodied as Putin or Biden, they ain't tiny powerless humans. They are choosing and supporting authoritarianism.
    - netsharc 5y ago
      So you really are fine with terrorists doing 9/11 because hey, Americans voted for the US leadership that shot up Bin Laden's friends? I have friends in Russia who are devastated at what Putin has wrought. > Most Russians and Americans are just as able bodied as Putin or Biden Ah of course! It's about being able bodied! Maybe my friend can just tell the Russian army to retreat, oh what's that, the army follows Putin's orders but not my friend's? Hmm, but they're "just as able-bodied", geez, maybe it's something else that makes the army listen to Putin and not to my friends? Even with coordinated calls for large demonstrations like Navalny's team did, the state (police) is still stronger.
      - sfe22 5y ago
        I am not fine with it, don’t twist my words. I would say authoritarians are actually fine with it occasionally, as they support a system where that is easier to be done, and then get to hide behind their authoritarian when shit hits the fan.
phailhaus 5y ago
They do not target Putin specifically, they target the Russian economy with the intent to cripple their ability to carry on the war and dampen popular support. > if anything, all these punishments will unite all Russians behind Putin So far, this has not been the case. There have been quite a few protests in Russia against the war. [1] [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/more-than-64-people-detained-anti-war-protests-russia-protest-monitor-2022-03-06/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/more-than-64-people-det...
- nvegater 5y ago
  Targeting Russian economy cripples their ability to carry on the war but there are many ways they can get in debt to carry on with that if Putin wants. So its easy to make an argument that that is not even close to stop the war. The "Dampen popular support aspect": is debatable wether that is true or not, even if there are people against the war in Russia. The propaganda is very strong and the friction to break the status quo is very high. There is no guarantee that the sanctions can influence Russian decisions towards peacemaking. On the other hand, its easy to come to the conclusion that people in Russia will suffer a lot. That is sad because they dont deserve it. Also the fact that they are trapped in Russia is terrible. Very few ways of getting out of there due to all the countries closing their airspace. IMO it would have been better to open the borders for both Ukrainian and Russian refugees (prioritising Ukrainians of course) and stop making business in the future with Russia, but without stopping the current functioning of the economy. This allows people to think about their future and move out of Russia without a lot of friction. In the long term, more damages for Putin's government.
  - axiosgunnar 5y ago
    I don't even try to argue with people like you anymore. One dictator is starting a literal war of aggression and you will still have armchair philosophers argue like this. I want my country and its allies to impose maximum damage on Russia, as a matter of principle. I frankly do not care about hypothetical collateral damage anymore, as right this minute we have artillery glassing Mariupol and Kiev, any arguing is moot.

sfe22 5y ago

Putin represents the Russian people just like Biden the Americans. How he got there is irrelevant, he represents and owns Russia/Russians, and they are fine with it. They chose authoritarianism and got a questionable tyrant. Now they gotta deal with it.

supergirl 5y ago
Russians have hardship engrained. War is always a fear for them because of what theu’ve been through in WW2. They will not renounce Putin so easily because they believe him when he says this is to avoid a bigger war with NATO
- mint2 5y ago
  Doing his best to start a war with nato short of literally attacking nato is a weird way to avoid a war with nato. I’m not convinced Putin cares much whether there is a war with nato. Nato is only an issue to modern Russia due to Putin’s ingrained confrontational attitude towards nato from the Cold War but more so his liberal use of nato and the west as a foil to maintain his domestic power.
  - unmole 5y ago
    > Nato is only an issue to modern Russia due to Putin’s ingrained confrontational attitude towards nato from the Cold War There's no moral justification for what's happening in Ukraine but pretending that expansion of NATO doesn't pose a strategic risk for Russia is intellectually dishonest.
netsharc 5y ago
"Mr. Bin Laden, how do you justify killing civilian Americans?" In fact it seems that defense is better for Bin Laden because America has free and fair elections as well as free press (terms and conditions may apply), in Russia there's no free press, opposition candidates are thrown either into jail or out of windows, and elections are rigged. It'd be like being mad at the neighbor's toddlers because their dad is an asshole who's terrorizing the neighborhood: what can the toddlers do?
- sfe22 5y ago
  For all I know Bin Laden was also elected “fair and free”. The problem is the power is not in the people but a select few, even in “democratic” America. The toddler comparison does not make a lot of sense. Most Russians and Americans are just as able bodied as Putin or Biden, they ain't tiny powerless humans. They are choosing and supporting authoritarianism.
  - netsharc 5y ago
    So you really are fine with terrorists doing 9/11 because hey, Americans voted for the US leadership that shot up Bin Laden's friends? I have friends in Russia who are devastated at what Putin has wrought. > Most Russians and Americans are just as able bodied as Putin or Biden Ah of course! It's about being able bodied! Maybe my friend can just tell the Russian army to retreat, oh what's that, the army follows Putin's orders but not my friend's? Hmm, but they're "just as able-bodied", geez, maybe it's something else that makes the army listen to Putin and not to my friends? Even with coordinated calls for large demonstrations like Navalny's team did, the state (police) is still stronger.
    - sfe22 5y ago
      I am not fine with it, don’t twist my words. I would say authoritarians are actually fine with it occasionally, as they support a system where that is easier to be done, and then get to hide behind their authoritarian when shit hits the fan.

phailhaus 5y ago

They do not target Putin specifically, they target the Russian economy with the intent to cripple their ability to carry on the war and dampen popular support. > if anything, all these punishments will unite all Russians behind Putin So far, this has not been the case. There have been quite a few protests in Russia against the war. [1] [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/more-than-64-people-detained-anti-war-protests-russia-protest-monitor-2022-03-06/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/more-than-64-people-det...

nvegater 5y ago
Targeting Russian economy cripples their ability to carry on the war but there are many ways they can get in debt to carry on with that if Putin wants. So its easy to make an argument that that is not even close to stop the war. The "Dampen popular support aspect": is debatable wether that is true or not, even if there are people against the war in Russia. The propaganda is very strong and the friction to break the status quo is very high. There is no guarantee that the sanctions can influence Russian decisions towards peacemaking. On the other hand, its easy to come to the conclusion that people in Russia will suffer a lot. That is sad because they dont deserve it. Also the fact that they are trapped in Russia is terrible. Very few ways of getting out of there due to all the countries closing their airspace. IMO it would have been better to open the borders for both Ukrainian and Russian refugees (prioritising Ukrainians of course) and stop making business in the future with Russia, but without stopping the current functioning of the economy. This allows people to think about their future and move out of Russia without a lot of friction. In the long term, more damages for Putin's government.
- axiosgunnar 5y ago
  I don't even try to argue with people like you anymore. One dictator is starting a literal war of aggression and you will still have armchair philosophers argue like this. I want my country and its allies to impose maximum damage on Russia, as a matter of principle. I frankly do not care about hypothetical collateral damage anymore, as right this minute we have artillery glassing Mariupol and Kiev, any arguing is moot.