4 ms·

It's interesting, because the EU also considers the US at best a fair weather ally, when not a bully. And that was before Trump. During the Trump presidency, t

by Yoric 5y ago

It's interesting, because the EU also considers the US at best a fair weather ally, when not a bully. And that was before Trump. During the Trump presidency, the EU was strongly considering the fact that the US could turn into an enemy any day, without any further warning. Kinda what happened with Russia, who was an economic partner and turned into an enemy without any further warning.

syshum 5y ago
- JAlexoid 5y ago
  US literally had a trade representative tell Volkswagen to move their engine manufacturing facility to US, or face heavy import duties. US is not free from being taken over by a national populist. Currently the highest rated TV show in US is run by a national conservative. Thank god, that American institutions are stronger than Donny, but had he been in office for another 4 years - it would have been dire.
- olifante 5y ago
  This is not a helpful comment. The Trumpian Republican party is here to stay, and it's very easy to imagine it being quite damaging to European interests and security once it's back in power. If there's one thing that the Trumpian right has shown is an appetite for the exercise of naked power, without any mask of moral pretences.
  - syshum 5y ago
    Please cite specific policies that are examples of this "exercise of naked power, without any mask of moral pretenses"...
- Yoric 5y ago
  In case you're trying to insult me: I'm pretty sure that this is not what I wrote.
patmorgan23 5y ago
There was plenty of warning that Russia was turning into an enemy but the Europeans (at least west Europeans) decide to ignore it.
- Yoric 5y ago
  Absolutely. That is why I wrote no "further" warning. I could probably have been clearer.
emptysongglass 5y ago
It's unfortunate that this was the take by EU politicians when everyone's favorite villain, Trump, was telling the EU nations to increase its NATO spending to the 2% guideline and was telling Germany to get off its Russian gas addiction or face the consequences. [1] Well, Germany (and its politicians: shown laughing at Trump in the video) are now paying the consequences of blindly walking into yet another trade deal with yet another autocratic power. [2] You'd think playing host to the horrors of WWII would have taught Germany a lesson or two of the consequences of such powers but no, it's business as usual. [3] The naivety of the EU in global politics would be laughable if it wasn't directly funding the artillery barrages and murder of more than a hundred children now by Russia. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfJv9QYrlwg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfJv9QYrlwg [2] https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3148374/angela-merkel-touts-eu-china-investment-deal-likely-last https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3148374/an... [3] https://stopgas.org/ https://stopgas.org/
- Yoric 5y ago
  I had several paragraphs to try and explain how scary Trump was for the rest of the world. I've deleted them because I don't want to enter an endless debate. Just know that, for dozens of reasons, in Europe, the Trump administration was seen as irrational and dangerous to his allies. These views were shared by both Progressives and Conservatives, throughout Europe, even to a large extent in the UK. In comparison, Putin was seen as more rational, hence a more measurable danger. It is now clear that the latter assessment was wrong. Regarding the former, the jury is still out.
  - syshum 5y ago
    Both assessments were clearly wrong, Out side of Harse words on twitter I would love to have anyone point to actual policy positions / actions that the Trump Administration took that put the world or the EU in greater danger?
    - Yoric 5y ago
      In immediate danger? Absolutely not. This was an attempt to predict future behavior of Donald Trump based on past/present behavior, taking into account the possibility of Donald Trump remaining president for a second mandate. If you recall, as seen from Europe, Donald Trump was: - exhibiting a number of traits typically attributed to fascism (using Umberto Eco's classification, I count a perfect 14/14 for Trump, based on speeches I've seen him deliver); - friendly relationships with many authoritarian/dictatorship governments (including Putin's Russia), hostile relationships/threats towards democracies (including most of the EU); - a tendency to betray allies and leave them to die (I'm thinking of Kurds, but abandoning Afghanistan is a joint Trump-Biden venture); - generally, a strong tendency to use international relationships as a pedestal to cater to the subset of his supporters that had no clue about international relationships and cheered him whenever he rattled his saber, threatened his allies and started a trade war that absolutely no sense. While none of these points definitely meant that Donald Trump was dangerous to the EU, at some point, EU leaders started wondering exactly on which side the US were. They would have been crazy not to.

by Yoric 5y ago

syshum 5y ago

JAlexoid 5y ago
US literally had a trade representative tell Volkswagen to move their engine manufacturing facility to US, or face heavy import duties. US is not free from being taken over by a national populist. Currently the highest rated TV show in US is run by a national conservative. Thank god, that American institutions are stronger than Donny, but had he been in office for another 4 years - it would have been dire.
olifante 5y ago
This is not a helpful comment. The Trumpian Republican party is here to stay, and it's very easy to imagine it being quite damaging to European interests and security once it's back in power. If there's one thing that the Trumpian right has shown is an appetite for the exercise of naked power, without any mask of moral pretences.
- syshum 5y ago
  Please cite specific policies that are examples of this "exercise of naked power, without any mask of moral pretenses"...
Yoric 5y ago
In case you're trying to insult me: I'm pretty sure that this is not what I wrote.

patmorgan23 5y ago

There was plenty of warning that Russia was turning into an enemy but the Europeans (at least west Europeans) decide to ignore it.

Yoric 5y ago
Absolutely. That is why I wrote no "further" warning. I could probably have been clearer.

emptysongglass 5y ago

It's unfortunate that this was the take by EU politicians when everyone's favorite villain, Trump, was telling the EU nations to increase its NATO spending to the 2% guideline and was telling Germany to get off its Russian gas addiction or face the consequences. [1] Well, Germany (and its politicians: shown laughing at Trump in the video) are now paying the consequences of blindly walking into yet another trade deal with yet another autocratic power. [2] You'd think playing host to the horrors of WWII would have taught Germany a lesson or two of the consequences of such powers but no, it's business as usual. [3] The naivety of the EU in global politics would be laughable if it wasn't directly funding the artillery barrages and murder of more than a hundred children now by Russia. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfJv9QYrlwg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfJv9QYrlwg [2] https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3148374/angela-merkel-touts-eu-china-investment-deal-likely-last https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3148374/an... [3] https://stopgas.org/ https://stopgas.org/

Yoric 5y ago
I had several paragraphs to try and explain how scary Trump was for the rest of the world. I've deleted them because I don't want to enter an endless debate. Just know that, for dozens of reasons, in Europe, the Trump administration was seen as irrational and dangerous to his allies. These views were shared by both Progressives and Conservatives, throughout Europe, even to a large extent in the UK. In comparison, Putin was seen as more rational, hence a more measurable danger. It is now clear that the latter assessment was wrong. Regarding the former, the jury is still out.
- syshum 5y ago
  Both assessments were clearly wrong, Out side of Harse words on twitter I would love to have anyone point to actual policy positions / actions that the Trump Administration took that put the world or the EU in greater danger?
  - Yoric 5y ago
    In immediate danger? Absolutely not. This was an attempt to predict future behavior of Donald Trump based on past/present behavior, taking into account the possibility of Donald Trump remaining president for a second mandate. If you recall, as seen from Europe, Donald Trump was: - exhibiting a number of traits typically attributed to fascism (using Umberto Eco's classification, I count a perfect 14/14 for Trump, based on speeches I've seen him deliver); - friendly relationships with many authoritarian/dictatorship governments (including Putin's Russia), hostile relationships/threats towards democracies (including most of the EU); - a tendency to betray allies and leave them to die (I'm thinking of Kurds, but abandoning Afghanistan is a joint Trump-Biden venture); - generally, a strong tendency to use international relationships as a pedestal to cater to the subset of his supporters that had no clue about international relationships and cheered him whenever he rattled his saber, threatened his allies and started a trade war that absolutely no sense. While none of these points definitely meant that Donald Trump was dangerous to the EU, at some point, EU leaders started wondering exactly on which side the US were. They would have been crazy not to.