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I see this post is getting some downvotes; I'm not sure I agree with all of it myself. But I would ask those, who reject the premise here outright, to think bac

I see this post is getting some downvotes; I'm not sure I agree with all of it myself. But I would ask those, who reject the premise here outright, to think back really hard to how things were in the 1990s. The Java brand was everywhere. It was a truly massive endeavour and one of the first languages to really go "viral" as the Solution For Everything. People laugh at the cute "Java runs on four billion devices!" tagline but back in 1995 if you weren't doing Java, you were a last-century coder. It was so pervasive Brendan Eich even renamed his strange scheme-smalltalk mashup "JavaScript".

paskozdilar 5y ago
People don't like to see their favorite languages bashed. It's completely understandable. I suppose there are many Java enthusiasts on here.
- kaba0 5y ago
  I mean, Java is not a liked language by any metrics, so I guess fans (myself included) are more than used to bashing. That’s why I don’t think that marketing helped the language become as great as it is. Sure, it had a part, but if something would have been substantially better it could have taken over a long time since java is not hypes at all anymore.
  - paskozdilar 5y ago
    > but if something would have been substantially better it could have taken over a long time I don't think that is true. Windows is still around.
twic 5y ago
There absolutely was massive Java hype. Twenty-five years ago Hype is not reason why "a major Silicon Valley company that's migrating their backend to it".
- zero_shift 5y ago
  No, but I think it's a big contributor to the network effect advantage Java has. I'm not bashing the language - it certainly has its defenders. Some people regard simplicity as a virtue (although I'd question how simple Java is nowadays). But I think even ardent Java fans will concede, Java has some deficiencies as a language. The main reason people use Java, is that people know Java. And the main reason they know Java, is because it is used. It takes a long time to kill a network effect.
BrendanEich 5y ago
I didn't name JS, Netscape management and marketing did the trademark deal with Sun to base its name on Java, which was truly hyped and heralded. (Also, Scheme-Self, not Scheme-Smalltalk.)

paskozdilar 5y ago

People don't like to see their favorite languages bashed. It's completely understandable. I suppose there are many Java enthusiasts on here.

kaba0 5y ago
I mean, Java is not a liked language by any metrics, so I guess fans (myself included) are more than used to bashing. That’s why I don’t think that marketing helped the language become as great as it is. Sure, it had a part, but if something would have been substantially better it could have taken over a long time since java is not hypes at all anymore.
- paskozdilar 5y ago
  > but if something would have been substantially better it could have taken over a long time I don't think that is true. Windows is still around.

twic 5y ago

There absolutely was massive Java hype. Twenty-five years ago Hype is not reason why "a major Silicon Valley company that's migrating their backend to it".

zero_shift 5y ago
No, but I think it's a big contributor to the network effect advantage Java has. I'm not bashing the language - it certainly has its defenders. Some people regard simplicity as a virtue (although I'd question how simple Java is nowadays). But I think even ardent Java fans will concede, Java has some deficiencies as a language. The main reason people use Java, is that people know Java. And the main reason they know Java, is because it is used. It takes a long time to kill a network effect.

BrendanEich 5y ago

I didn't name JS, Netscape management and marketing did the trademark deal with Sun to base its name on Java, which was truly hyped and heralded. (Also, Scheme-Self, not Scheme-Smalltalk.)