4 ms·
Moderating a general-purpose forum for the world is intractable, either automatically or manually. That's just a fact. Acknowledging this fact does not need to
by throwawaygh 5y ago
Moderating a general-purpose forum for the world is intractable, either automatically or manually. That's just a fact. Acknowledging this fact does not need to be understood as a defense of Meta.
I cannot offer any solutions for tackling this issue internationally, especially in cases such as genocide. The issue seems hopeless and not particularly unique to the internet (see: previous genocides and their use of new mass media such as newspapers in Germany, radio in Darfur).
However, in the United States, I think the solution is ultimately local. Making specific and credible threats against someone is crime in all jurisdictions. Harassment using a telecommunications device is also a crime in most jurisdictions. Combining harassment with either vague threats or hate speech is sometimes its own crime.
I've found, to my surprise, that the legal system is interested in internet harassment/threats even if the harassment/threat is "obviously trolling" by internet standards. The bad news is that there isn't a bright line and the bar is high. The good news is that the type of internet behavior that's been normalized in the past couple decades is so far beyond the pale that a bright line isn't even needed in many cases. E.g.,
- sending dozens of unrequited and extremely angry/hateful DMs to multiple unlinked accounts over weeks/months, even after requests to stop contacting the person, is clearly a criminal act called harassment, punishable by fines and jail time.
- Doxxing a person who one has previously made threats against is clearly a criminal act called stalking, punishable by fines and jail time.
- Telling someone that you think you know who they are, that you will figure out their IRL identity, and that you will then harm them in a specific way is clearly a credible threat. Again, a criminal act punishable by fines and jail time.
These are all very common types of trolling. I would have thought that the lines were fuzzier from my long tenure on the internet, and that courts/police would respond with their equivalent of "ignore it and don't feed the trolls". But it turns out that these anti-social behaviors are not normal outside of very specific internet subcultures, and judges/detectives/DAs have spent approximately zero hours in internet cesspools. To them, all of the above are alarming, obviously criminal, and not examples of cases where one should simply ignore the behavior and go on with life.
I've found that even respected moderators of respected forums will disregard as "just trolling" behavior that my DA's office and local detectives describe as "obviously criminal". Facebook and Twitter will also refuse to ban accounts that are engaged in harassment/threats/stalking behavior that the local DA is interested in prosecuting.
I'm also working a few attorney friends -- and spending some change -- on developing a repeatable, low-cost, DIY-as-possible civil strategy for unmasking and obtaining restraining orders against John Doe harassers.
The days of "threatening and harassing people on the internet" being "normal troll behavior" are going to come to a rude close for US residents over the next ten years, mostly on the back of serious misdemeanors and innovation in the use of civil lawsuits.
- aspenmayer 5y agoHow do consumers self-help in the meantime? What’s the primary work that you’re doing in this area? What needs to be done to make this a reality?
- throwawaygh 5y ago> How do consumers self-help in the meantime? Consumers can't do much. Citizens can leverage their local government to prioritize investigation and enforcement of laws against harassment, stalking, and threats. Persons with sufficient resources can try to use civil suits, but the path here remains opaque, expensive, and is specific to your state of residence. You are a consumer, but you are also a citizen of a country and a state, both of which have strong rule of law and more-or-less free&fair elections. > What’s the primary work that you’re doing in this area? I am: 1. leaning on friends with legal training and supporting their time with my money, and 2. keeping pressure on my DA and Sheriff's office to prioritize enforcement of online harassment, stalking, and threats. Particularly in cases where there is compelling public interest (e.g., local teachers). > What needs to be done to make this a reality? Small nudges in culture within every law enforcement organization and every prosecutor's office. Focus on your home turf, and don't over-think it. Participate in relevant elections. Show up to candidate forums and ask relevant questions, then donate and volunteer to candidates who give good answers and let them know why you're donating/volunteering. If there is no candidate forum, or if the forum is held too close to election day to make a difference, send individual emails. "Prosecute internet trolls who are clearly harassing, stalking, and making violent threats against normal private citizens" is not a hard sell, so it's more a matter of being squeaky than convincing anyone.
- tareqak 5y agoThe topic of moderating a general-purpose is no doubt difficult and an interesting problem to solve at scale (if it is indeed possible to solve), but it is not the topic at hand. In this specific case, Facebook is being asked to moderate advertisements for which they charge fees and presumably make a profit.
- throwawaygh 5y ago