4 ms·

This is pretty similar to the "pantsers vs plotters" debate in creative writing. Do you need an outline before writing a novel? How much of one?

by fizx 5y ago

syngrog66 5y ago
both. you absolutely benefit from being free to improvise and follow the creative muse when pen on paper you also need a well-thought out outline for any larger work like a novel, or, it will be a disaster, or at least not be anywhere as good as it could have been credentials: creative writing for decades and experienced 1sthand tradeoffs of each. my verdict? seek the Hegelian dialectic. ;-)
- slothtrop 5y ago
  If one ever does forgo an outline (I'm not sure if this is ever done), you'd probably have to revise the entire thing a lot, such that you're imposing an outline anyway.
  - syngrog66 5y ago
    bingo. agreed. been bit by that a lot, esp when younger haha. my 1st book had no outline. my 2nd and 3rd books both have outlines. while still trying to keep the baby, minus the bathwater. I like the results, and the total sunk LOE much much better. related semi-tangent: with fiction I also adopted the rule to write the Ending first. because, for me at least, it then crystallizes what sorts of Middles and Beginnings might lead to it, and make the most sense or have the biggest emotional impact on the reader. which then practically paints out the character journeys for you, as the author. very helpful tactic
  - kayodelycaon 5y ago
    > If one ever does forgo an outline It's more common than you think.
- kayodelycaon 5y ago
  > you also need a well-thought out outline for any larger work like a novel Hasn't been the case for me so far. Every story and essay I've written started with an idea. If there is an outline, it gets thrown away page 2 and never returns. On my second novel and this still hasn't changed. My writing is actually better this way because I start with characters and plot emerges as they deal with the forces around them. I never know how they will react until they do. I program the same way. Write a bit, revise, write a bit, revise. Drives some people nuts if they see the process, but the end result has been just as good or better than my coworkers throughout my career. (I'm a huge fan of tests. My revise step includes adding tests.)

This is pretty similar to the "pantsers vs plotters" debate in creative writing. Do you need an outline before writing a novel? How much of one?

by fizx 5y ago

This is pretty similar to the "pantsers vs plotters" debate in creative writing. Do you need an outline before writing a novel? How much of one?

syngrog66 5y ago

both. you absolutely benefit from being free to improvise and follow the creative muse when pen on paper you also need a well-thought out outline for any larger work like a novel, or, it will be a disaster, or at least not be anywhere as good as it could have been credentials: creative writing for decades and experienced 1sthand tradeoffs of each. my verdict? seek the Hegelian dialectic. ;-)

slothtrop 5y ago
If one ever does forgo an outline (I'm not sure if this is ever done), you'd probably have to revise the entire thing a lot, such that you're imposing an outline anyway.
- syngrog66 5y ago
  bingo. agreed. been bit by that a lot, esp when younger haha. my 1st book had no outline. my 2nd and 3rd books both have outlines. while still trying to keep the baby, minus the bathwater. I like the results, and the total sunk LOE much much better. related semi-tangent: with fiction I also adopted the rule to write the Ending first. because, for me at least, it then crystallizes what sorts of Middles and Beginnings might lead to it, and make the most sense or have the biggest emotional impact on the reader. which then practically paints out the character journeys for you, as the author. very helpful tactic
- kayodelycaon 5y ago
  > If one ever does forgo an outline It's more common than you think.
kayodelycaon 5y ago
> you also need a well-thought out outline for any larger work like a novel Hasn't been the case for me so far. Every story and essay I've written started with an idea. If there is an outline, it gets thrown away page 2 and never returns. On my second novel and this still hasn't changed. My writing is actually better this way because I start with characters and plot emerges as they deal with the forces around them. I never know how they will react until they do. I program the same way. Write a bit, revise, write a bit, revise. Drives some people nuts if they see the process, but the end result has been just as good or better than my coworkers throughout my career. (I'm a huge fan of tests. My revise step includes adding tests.)