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I just graduated from Columbia Law and am currently a biglaw first year. I agree with you pretty much entirely. Her article is idiotic and so is most of this t
by ss108 5y ago
I just graduated from Columbia Law and am currently a biglaw first year. I agree with you pretty much entirely.
Her article is idiotic and so is most of this thread.
- yeahwhatever10 5y agoArticles like this that are mostly based on a collection of one off examples always make me cautious. What do you think of the examples given? Are they extreme outliers, or common place in law schools?
- ss108 5y agoSpeaking just to the elite law school angle, her concerns are not illegitimate or unfounded, but they are blown out of proportion. Doing my best on phone; this isn't as thorough or nuanced as I'd like. I myself was extremely irked that many of my progressive law school classmates were basically like Trump supporters in that they cared more about their desired policy goals and outcomes than the underpinnings of the law, and didn't have much of a value system beyond their ideologies. They would love to pack the courts with ideologues like conservatives have been fairly successful at doing. But that was a minority of people. What's more, our professors were definitely not of the same mind. The prof I had for con law, for example, is a prominent, highly regarded young liberal intellectual who posed hypotheticals to challenge the class's liberal assumptions, chiding us with "you guys are good liberals right?" He also regularly attends FedSoc panels (the FedSoc chapter at Columbia is doing just fine btw). She also simply fails to understand how unmoving and slow-to-change the law is. She presents it as much more fungible and modifiable than it is. Her pointing to Breyer re: preemptory challenges is dumb, and almost a counter-argument, given that Breyer is not a particularly ideological justice. Weiss is an uncredentialed pseudo-intellectual who has latched onto a real problem, but who does not have the knowledge or experience to write competently on the subject.
- adamsmith143 5y ago>Weiss is an uncredentialed Why is this relevant? It's also wrong considering she has graduated with a degree from Columbia...
- nebula8804 5y agoIt seems impossible to find her actual degree anywhere. Its like it has been scrubbed from the internet. Do you know what she actually majored in? The best I could find was a BA in History but I am unsure as it came from a third party source.
- adamsmith143 5y agoGiven that she worked for the WSJ and NYT and they most likely thoroughly vet their hires, I doubt she lied about having a degree from Columbia. If that is what you are implying.
- nebula8804 5y agoI'm not saying that. You originally replied to this comment: "Weiss is an uncredentialed pseudo-intellectual who has latched onto a real problem, but who does not have the knowledge or experience to write competently on the subject." I was simply trying to find out what she actually majored in to gauge whether there is any truth to this statement. Furthermore, the difficulty in finding the exact degree program seems very suspicious.
- adamsmith143 5y ago>Furthermore, the difficulty in finding the exact degree program seems very suspicious. So you indeed are implying that she lied about her degree
- nebula8804 5y agoNo but whatever I say won't convince you. You clearly have an agenda that you are trying to push.
- tannedNerd 5y agoWeiss isn’t the author… she also has a degree from Columbia which makes her more credible than someone who posts based of a URL.
- KerrAvon 5y agoAn Ivy League degree doesn’t make you credible. Weiss is a well-known crank and her opinions should generally be assumed to be trolling.
- ss108 5y agoShe didn't go to law school, she's not part of that world. Think about how many articles get tech stuff wrong. Articles about law tend to be even worse because of the political/emotive aspects, which writers (such as here) try to inflame.
- nebula8804 5y agoDo we actually know what degree she has? Wikipedia only says that she has a "BA". That could be so many different disciplines...
- ss108 5y agoI think someone on here said history. I'm not sure.
- nebula8804 5y agoThats was me. It is unconfirmed based on a third party website. Its so weird that despite her being a very well known public figure, that this info is not out there.
- ss108 5y agoYou are correct though she isn't the author, but everyone in this thread assumes she is haha (The actual author also seems unqualified to argue the issue)
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- TruthIsHeresy 5y agoI just graduated from an Ivy League law school and I found the article spot-on. So which of us is wrong?
- mgamache 5y agoThe future is here. It's just not distributed unevenly. Claiming that this is not common is not a valid argument in 2022. It will be common soon enough based on the trajectory of the last few years.
- rhacker 5y agoIt's like inflation. Not everyone sees it at the same time
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- matthewmcg 5y agoI disagree. You're assuming that these purported behaviors would inevitably spread. It's also possible that they're just occurring or being observed within a small group due to the specific incentives and dynamics for that group. Maybe it's a fashionable research topic in that also gets web traffic but is otherwise far removed from the work of most legal practitioners.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- sjg007 5y agoCan you see the opposite viewpoint?
- ss108 5y agoWhich one? Unless it was Yale, I'd wager you're finding examples of something that triggers you everywhere because ppl are primed to do that. It's one of the fallacies of the woke crowd as well. Would be interested in hearing more about your exp. I can provide more details of mine as well.
- newbamboo 5y agoPeople really do hate the profession with an intensity that seems at times, as you said, idiotic. I read these pieces about political disruptions to our system of laws with some concern that those deep in the thing might not understand the extent of their own biases. Better to err on the side of caution. A stitch in time saves nine.
- rayiner 5y agoI’m privy to the mailing list threads another T14. The article is spot on.
- ss108 5y agoMailing lists != what most people actually spend most of their time learning at elite law schools and what they will end up doing as lawyers
- rayiner 5y agoNo, but I think how people express themselves to future colleagues on a mailing list says a lot about how they think.
- ss108 5y agoBut it doesn't establish the proportion of ppl with those beliefs. Radicals of any persuasion tend to be loudmouths. You and I both went to T14s and clearly have different political beliefs from those people. Most people at such schools are pretty progressive, but not extreme, and will end up just working in biglaw and various government positions and as in-house counsel. Sadly for the woke, any attemp they make to obtain and exercise actual legal power by the same obnoxious behavior they exhibit in law school will not make a wrinkle in the stone face of the law. Only changes agreed-upon by less extreme elements can make it through--they need the votes.
- metalliqaz 5y agoWho is "her"? Are you referring to an article other than the OP? (author is Aaron Sibarium)
- Anthony-G 5y agoI assume “her” refers to Bari Weiss whose Substack the article is published on. I also made the mistake of assuming that the article author was Bari Weiss so thanks for pointing it out. It looks like her Substack is more of a group blog with multiple authors contributing to it.
- knighthack 5y agoYou're a fledgling first-year practitioner, with no direct access to the thoughts and business considerations of biglaw firm partners or what they deal with. And yet you confidently conclude that the article "is idiotic and so is most of this thread", as if your statement were fact, with not even a contrary opinion to support your statement. Congratulations. You're the kind of junior lawyer the article warns against.
- ss108 5y agoThe business considerations have nothing to do with this. The article makes claims about elite law schools and what the culture is like there. I was at one more recently than you. The article makes a logical leap to connect the increasing "wokeness" of young law students and lawyers to some alleged "takeover" of American law that is in no way manifesting itself. None of your comments substantiate the notion that such a takeover is eminent. The "business considerations" of biglaw partners or my experience handling, e.g., commercial litigation, are irrelevant.