4 ms·

It's definitely illegal, but (ianal) it's the kind of thing that's tough to do anything about legally. The inconvenience to a particular individual is so small

It's definitely illegal, but (ianal) it's the kind of thing that's tough to do anything about legally. The inconvenience to a particular individual is so small that there are no damages worth suing over. And so nobody bothers. But add that up over thousands of companies wasting millions of people's time, and it's a tragedy.

SamWhited 5y ago
This is true, but the intent probably isn't for the individual to sue, it's for them to report it to the relevant rule making executive agency who also has standing to sue (or just has standing to fine them directly depending on the agency and the rule, I don't know who governs this or if they have that power or not).
- ______-_-______ 5y ago
  The relevant agency would be the FTC, but is the FTC even interested in pursuing these cases? I've seen a few cases where they sued scammy businesses (https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2019/12/operators-multi-million-dollar-work-home-scheme-settle-ftc-allegations https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2019/12/...), but there are lots of legitimate businesses that are nonetheless breaking the law. For example Xfinity sent me an ad for a voice-activated remote, categorized it as a "service-related email" and had no unsubscribe link. Instantly marked as spam. What I want to know is: has there ever been even a single case of the FTC going after one of these real companies?
  - saltminer 5y ago
    Experian sends me marketing emails classified as service-related as well, seems like once a week at least. Thankfully, Gmail has learned that I always mark them as spam and classifies them accordingly, though I wonder if it'll do the same if a non-marketing email ever comes through.
_Algernon_ 5y ago
When I encounter this I mark that email as spam in gmail. My hope is that if enough people do it, they will get blacklisted.
SomeCallMeTim 5y ago
But the CAN-SPAM act has built-in penalties: > Q. What are the penalties for violating the CAN-SPAM Act? > A. Each separate email in violation of the law is subject to penalties of up to $46,517, and more than one person may be held responsible for violations. For example, both the company whose product is promoted in the message and the company that originated the message may be legally responsible. https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/can-spam-act-compliance-guide-business https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/can-spam-act... That's ... not a trivial amount of money. Wait for them to send you a dozen spam, and it's even more substantial.
- tekknik 5y ago
  Just send the company an email and quote this section, it gets great results. I’ve used this method to get off a few mailing lists that implement these dark patterns.
  - zinclozenge 5y ago
    I did this a couple of years ago to my alma mater alumni association by sending an email to the president directly. So far I haven't gotten an email so I guess it's working. In my case, every time I tried unsubscribing I'd get some kind of sql error showing up inlined in the html so it was even more frustrating.
- everybodyknows 5y ago
  > up to $46,517 Meaning the same as "not more than". And $0 is of course not more than $46,517.
- ______-_-______ 5y ago
  Those penalties are only theoretical. They only matter if the FTC bothers with enforcement. Lowly citizens such as you and I cannot bring a suit and cannot cost these companies a dime. Source: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/inbox/can-spam_and_consumer_lawsuits https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/inbox/can-spam_and_consumer_... If the FTC cared, they would have made an example of at least one company in the intervening 20 years.

SamWhited 5y ago

This is true, but the intent probably isn't for the individual to sue, it's for them to report it to the relevant rule making executive agency who also has standing to sue (or just has standing to fine them directly depending on the agency and the rule, I don't know who governs this or if they have that power or not).

______-_-______ 5y ago
The relevant agency would be the FTC, but is the FTC even interested in pursuing these cases? I've seen a few cases where they sued scammy businesses (https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2019/12/operators-multi-million-dollar-work-home-scheme-settle-ftc-allegations https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2019/12/...), but there are lots of legitimate businesses that are nonetheless breaking the law. For example Xfinity sent me an ad for a voice-activated remote, categorized it as a "service-related email" and had no unsubscribe link. Instantly marked as spam. What I want to know is: has there ever been even a single case of the FTC going after one of these real companies?
- saltminer 5y ago
  Experian sends me marketing emails classified as service-related as well, seems like once a week at least. Thankfully, Gmail has learned that I always mark them as spam and classifies them accordingly, though I wonder if it'll do the same if a non-marketing email ever comes through.

_Algernon_ 5y ago

When I encounter this I mark that email as spam in gmail. My hope is that if enough people do it, they will get blacklisted.

SomeCallMeTim 5y ago

But the CAN-SPAM act has built-in penalties: > Q. What are the penalties for violating the CAN-SPAM Act? > A. Each separate email in violation of the law is subject to penalties of up to $46,517, and more than one person may be held responsible for violations. For example, both the company whose product is promoted in the message and the company that originated the message may be legally responsible. https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/can-spam-act-compliance-guide-business https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/can-spam-act... That's ... not a trivial amount of money. Wait for them to send you a dozen spam, and it's even more substantial.

tekknik 5y ago
Just send the company an email and quote this section, it gets great results. I’ve used this method to get off a few mailing lists that implement these dark patterns.
- zinclozenge 5y ago
  I did this a couple of years ago to my alma mater alumni association by sending an email to the president directly. So far I haven't gotten an email so I guess it's working. In my case, every time I tried unsubscribing I'd get some kind of sql error showing up inlined in the html so it was even more frustrating.
everybodyknows 5y ago
> up to $46,517 Meaning the same as "not more than". And $0 is of course not more than $46,517.
______-_-______ 5y ago
Those penalties are only theoretical. They only matter if the FTC bothers with enforcement. Lowly citizens such as you and I cannot bring a suit and cannot cost these companies a dime. Source: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/inbox/can-spam_and_consumer_lawsuits https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/inbox/can-spam_and_consumer_... If the FTC cared, they would have made an example of at least one company in the intervening 20 years.