13 ms·

Pirate Party Germany now at 8% in nationwide polls

150 points by FrojoS 15y ago

nextparadigms 15y ago
They are basically throwing the electorate at them with all the new laws and proposals for Internet disconnection and all that. They probably don't even see it coming.
- thwarted 15y ago
  I'm having trouble parsing this. Who is "they", and are both "they"s the same people?
  - masklinn 15y ago
    > Who is "they" Incumbent german politicians, from the "traditional" german parties, I think. > and are both "they"s the same people? That's how I read it.
- gimpf 15y ago
  You are by far overestimating the general public interest into such topics. Also, there are enough people who think that banning internet for something they think is at least as much a crime as shoplifting is absolutely appropriate. However, I have to admit that I get a tiny weeny bit optimistic. But: similar "interest group" parties (Grüne, anyone?) tend to lose their focus, and their competence, with time. Summary: Too soon to tell.
- fab13n 15y ago
  > They are basically throwing the electorate at them I think they're primarily throwing the non-electorate. Many young people don't vote because they perceive it to be about boring, old people stuff they don't really get nor care about. They barely know what are inflation or the ECB fund rate, they certainly don't have any advice about who's going to act on it in the most constructive way. Now mess with their Internets, and suddenly they understand what the poll is about. Politicians have tailored their rhetorics for a world in which retired people vote, whereas youngsters don't. It looks like it's changing.
  - jbooth 15y ago
    Most old people barely know what inflation or the ECB/fed fund rate are, either, just sayin.
    - fab13n 15y ago
      Yet it doesn't prevent them from having an advice about it, it seems. Hypothesis: when you're young, you can dismiss these stuff and have no advice about them, because they're grown-ups stuff. As you age, you have to admit that they're for smarter people, not merely older ones.
      - burgerbrain 15y ago
        s/advice/uneducated opinion/ Yeah, I think I'll stick with "not knowing what all that shit means, and being self aware enough to realize it".
    - whatusername 15y ago
      You should move to Australia. The Reserve Bank not changing the cash rate is front page news.
    - bh42222 15y ago
      Are you sure that most old German people don't now what the inflation rate is?
      - groby_b 15y ago
        Fairly certain. WW2 is now 66 years past, and the 20's and 30's are more a cultural memory than anything else. Sure, people get the concept, but they don't have the visceral reaction older people had to it, or the drive to monitor it constantly. How do you think Germany got suckered into the Euro in the first place?
        vondur 15y ago
        Suckered? Up until recently the switch to the Euro has been good for Germany.
kayoone 15y ago
This is good, it shows that the people dont like the mess the current government is producing.
Igor_Bratnikov 15y ago
As someone on the ground in Germany I can tell that a lot of Germans, even techies are still confused and not sure what the Pirate Party represents or what their actual political program is, which greatly devalues what ever recent wins they have acquired. Unfortunately a political party must be about more than just transparency and better IP policies (I agree with both though) or at least that is how the Germans see the Pirates.
- yason 15y ago
  Ideally, it shouldn't need to be more than that. A voting system where you rank, say, five candidates from different parties could support several small parties which are biased against in most current democratic systems.
  - eru 15y ago
    Yes, but at least proportional voting isn't as bad as first-past-the-post in this regard.
    - muuh-gnu 15y ago
      If you thought first-past-the-post was bad, wait for the new innovative top-two system to further spread, which is flat out eliminating the third party completely. * http://www.stoptoptwo.org/about/ http://www.stoptoptwo.org/about/ * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_14_%282010%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_14_%2820...
      - eru 15y ago
        Sounds like a run-off voting system. The French use a similar system to elect their presidents, as far as I know. Is that right? Have you looked at the French experiences?
  - IgorPartola 15y ago
    It sort of should. Otherwise, one-trick candidates who really have no idea about economics or foreign policy can win, say, a presidential election on a campaign based on, say, pro-life vs pro-choice or prohibition or their stance on one particular social program.
rmoriz 15y ago
So what do we learn out of this? Move your buttocks and bring in your skills and time: http://twitpic.com/6tg4l9 http://twitpic.com/6tg4l9 (that's Marina Weisband, Member of the Board, Piratenpartei Deutschland)
jarek-foksa 15y ago
Posting voting polls in which your favorite party scores well, especially directly before elections, falls under political agitation category. Could we please keep this out of HN? I'm suprised that party which seeks to seriously impair (if not completely blow) the software industry gets so much applause here.
- chc 15y ago
  Just because I benefit from some copyrights doesn't mean I completely agree with the direction copyright law is taking, much less patent or privacy laws. (I'm not a pirate party member or anything — just explaining where the sympathy comes from.)
- nickik 15y ago
  This website is called Hacker News. They pretty much represent the Hacker ethic in form of a political party. Its getting posted here because its intressting to alot of Americans that don't have a party like this in america. How exactlly do the impair the software industry? Some (don't know how many exactlly) of the guys that got elected into the berlin parlament work together in a software startup. One of them even owns it. Why would they destroy the industry many of them work in?
  - jarek-foksa 15y ago
    I meant HN as a startup scene. If you are selling software product and all means of fighting with unauthorized redistribution are taken away from you then you are screwed. That's all I have to say.
    - simonbrown 15y ago
      Most Y Combinator type starts I've seen are webapps, which can't exactly be pirated.
    - slowpoke 15y ago
      > If you are selling software product Well then, there is your problem. Your business model does no longer work (or rather, is slowly but inevitably failing) - you cannot force people to pay for the distribution of infinitely copyable data, and neither can you ultimately force them to pay you to use it. My question is: How exactly does this entitle you to demand laws to save your business model? You could apply the very same argument you are using against Free Software (the libre kind), which is still nonsense. Besides, generations of industries have been put out of business by technical advancements. I don't see why the software industry (or any digital media industry, for that matter) should be the first to have a special exception just because they whine loud enough. How about you stop complaining about inevitable progress and instead try to find new ways to make ends meet? Adapt or face being made obsolete - it's that simple, really.

150 points by FrojoS 15y ago

They are basically throwing the electorate at them with all the new laws and proposals for Internet disconnection and all that. They probably don't even see it coming.

thwarted 15y ago
I'm having trouble parsing this. Who is "they", and are both "they"s the same people?
- masklinn 15y ago
  > Who is "they" Incumbent german politicians, from the "traditional" german parties, I think. > and are both "they"s the same people? That's how I read it.
gimpf 15y ago
You are by far overestimating the general public interest into such topics. Also, there are enough people who think that banning internet for something they think is at least as much a crime as shoplifting is absolutely appropriate. However, I have to admit that I get a tiny weeny bit optimistic. But: similar "interest group" parties (Grüne, anyone?) tend to lose their focus, and their competence, with time. Summary: Too soon to tell.
fab13n 15y ago
> They are basically throwing the electorate at them I think they're primarily throwing the non-electorate. Many young people don't vote because they perceive it to be about boring, old people stuff they don't really get nor care about. They barely know what are inflation or the ECB fund rate, they certainly don't have any advice about who's going to act on it in the most constructive way. Now mess with their Internets, and suddenly they understand what the poll is about. Politicians have tailored their rhetorics for a world in which retired people vote, whereas youngsters don't. It looks like it's changing.
- jbooth 15y ago
  Most old people barely know what inflation or the ECB/fed fund rate are, either, just sayin.
  - fab13n 15y ago
    Yet it doesn't prevent them from having an advice about it, it seems. Hypothesis: when you're young, you can dismiss these stuff and have no advice about them, because they're grown-ups stuff. As you age, you have to admit that they're for smarter people, not merely older ones.
    - burgerbrain 15y ago
      s/advice/uneducated opinion/ Yeah, I think I'll stick with "not knowing what all that shit means, and being self aware enough to realize it".
  - whatusername 15y ago
    You should move to Australia. The Reserve Bank not changing the cash rate is front page news.
  - bh42222 15y ago
    Are you sure that most old German people don't now what the inflation rate is?
    - groby_b 15y ago
      Fairly certain. WW2 is now 66 years past, and the 20's and 30's are more a cultural memory than anything else. Sure, people get the concept, but they don't have the visceral reaction older people had to it, or the drive to monitor it constantly. How do you think Germany got suckered into the Euro in the first place?
      - vondur 15y ago
        Suckered? Up until recently the switch to the Euro has been good for Germany.

kayoone 15y ago

This is good, it shows that the people dont like the mess the current government is producing.

Igor_Bratnikov 15y ago

As someone on the ground in Germany I can tell that a lot of Germans, even techies are still confused and not sure what the Pirate Party represents or what their actual political program is, which greatly devalues what ever recent wins they have acquired. Unfortunately a political party must be about more than just transparency and better IP policies (I agree with both though) or at least that is how the Germans see the Pirates.

yason 15y ago
Ideally, it shouldn't need to be more than that. A voting system where you rank, say, five candidates from different parties could support several small parties which are biased against in most current democratic systems.
- eru 15y ago
  Yes, but at least proportional voting isn't as bad as first-past-the-post in this regard.
  - muuh-gnu 15y ago
    If you thought first-past-the-post was bad, wait for the new innovative top-two system to further spread, which is flat out eliminating the third party completely. * http://www.stoptoptwo.org/about/ http://www.stoptoptwo.org/about/ * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_14_%282010%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_14_%2820...
    - eru 15y ago
      Sounds like a run-off voting system. The French use a similar system to elect their presidents, as far as I know. Is that right? Have you looked at the French experiences?
- IgorPartola 15y ago
  It sort of should. Otherwise, one-trick candidates who really have no idea about economics or foreign policy can win, say, a presidential election on a campaign based on, say, pro-life vs pro-choice or prohibition or their stance on one particular social program.

rmoriz 15y ago

So what do we learn out of this? Move your buttocks and bring in your skills and time: http://twitpic.com/6tg4l9 http://twitpic.com/6tg4l9 (that's Marina Weisband, Member of the Board, Piratenpartei Deutschland)

jarek-foksa 15y ago

Posting voting polls in which your favorite party scores well, especially directly before elections, falls under political agitation category. Could we please keep this out of HN? I'm suprised that party which seeks to seriously impair (if not completely blow) the software industry gets so much applause here.

chc 15y ago
Just because I benefit from some copyrights doesn't mean I completely agree with the direction copyright law is taking, much less patent or privacy laws. (I'm not a pirate party member or anything — just explaining where the sympathy comes from.)
nickik 15y ago
This website is called Hacker News. They pretty much represent the Hacker ethic in form of a political party. Its getting posted here because its intressting to alot of Americans that don't have a party like this in america. How exactlly do the impair the software industry? Some (don't know how many exactlly) of the guys that got elected into the berlin parlament work together in a software startup. One of them even owns it. Why would they destroy the industry many of them work in?
- jarek-foksa 15y ago
  I meant HN as a startup scene. If you are selling software product and all means of fighting with unauthorized redistribution are taken away from you then you are screwed. That's all I have to say.
  - simonbrown 15y ago
    Most Y Combinator type starts I've seen are webapps, which can't exactly be pirated.
  - slowpoke 15y ago
    > If you are selling software product Well then, there is your problem. Your business model does no longer work (or rather, is slowly but inevitably failing) - you cannot force people to pay for the distribution of infinitely copyable data, and neither can you ultimately force them to pay you to use it. My question is: How exactly does this entitle you to demand laws to save your business model? You could apply the very same argument you are using against Free Software (the libre kind), which is still nonsense. Besides, generations of industries have been put out of business by technical advancements. I don't see why the software industry (or any digital media industry, for that matter) should be the first to have a special exception just because they whine loud enough. How about you stop complaining about inevitable progress and instead try to find new ways to make ends meet? Adapt or face being made obsolete - it's that simple, really.