3 ms·

>If you nationalize housing and hold prices low, then there will be supply shortages where some folks will not be able to get housing who would happily pay your

>If you nationalize housing and hold prices low, then there will be supply shortages where some folks will not be able to get housing who would happily pay your price. (This is a fact, not conjecture, and is easily observed in any affordable housing lottery in the United States.) Singapore solved this (and other issues) by creating a department that basically functions as the nation's largest property developer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_and_Development_Board https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_and_Development_Board Net result is about 80% of residents living in public housing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_Singapore

pxmpxm 5y ago
Owner-occupied public housing can be sold in a resale market, subject to restrictions. The government does not regulate prices within the resale market. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_Singapore This is pretty much the exact opposite of the nationalize-all-the-things public housing concept, which presumably is why it's not devolved into the usual electoral capture/tragedy of the commons sh show
asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
I'm concerned about affordability, not the designation of the housing where people live. Even in Singapore, the rent is too damn high, at least as far as I can tell from brief googling. E.g. https://blog.moneysmart.sg/budgeting/cost-living-singapore/ https://blog.moneysmart.sg/budgeting/cost-living-singapore/
- AussieWog93 5y ago
  Hmm, interesting. It seems like things are a little bit more complex over there than here, though, with subsidies given to married couples buying their first home and different tiers for PR/Citizens and everybody else. For example, my Googling seems to suggest that you could buy a 4BR in a new neighbourhood for under 350k. A new estate in Melbourne would be double that, with no public transport or other amenities.
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
    > For example, my Googling seems to suggest that you could buy a 4BR in a new neighbourhood for under 350k. A new estate in Melbourne would be double that, with no public transport or other amenities. It's worth noting that Singapore's average household income is around 1/5th that of Australia.
    - AussieWog93 5y ago
      >It's worth noting that Singapore's average household income is around 1/5th that of Australia. A quick Google shows an average household income of $116k AUD for Aussies, and $114k SGD for (resident) Singaporeans. Current exchange rates peg 1 SGD to 0.997 AUD.
      - asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
        Yikes, I'm struggling to see how I got Singapore's income numbers so wrong. I think maybe I misstook the monthly income for the annual? In any case, you're quite right. My previous point was invalid. Unless I'm missing something, I was incorrect about the relative prices of housing in Singapore and Australia.
        woleium 5y ago
        nice followup :)
        AussieWog93 5y ago
        Maybe you were reading a stat for foreign (non-resident) workers? They have a bit of a weird caste-esque system where foreign workers from Burma/Indonedia/Phillipines get paid a pittance.
refurb 5y ago
Oh lordy, no, they didn't solve it. If you're not married, you can't get public housing until you're 35. If you do qualify, you have to enter a lottery for the opportunity to choose a unit. The chances of winning the first time are low. Then once you've won, the wait time is 4-5 years before you actually get the place. But people do it because you can buy the unit subsidized, then after ~5 years, you can sell it at market rates. It's basically a free hand out by the governement.

pxmpxm 5y ago

Owner-occupied public housing can be sold in a resale market, subject to restrictions. The government does not regulate prices within the resale market. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_Singapore This is pretty much the exact opposite of the nationalize-all-the-things public housing concept, which presumably is why it's not devolved into the usual electoral capture/tragedy of the commons sh show

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago

I'm concerned about affordability, not the designation of the housing where people live. Even in Singapore, the rent is too damn high, at least as far as I can tell from brief googling. E.g. https://blog.moneysmart.sg/budgeting/cost-living-singapore/ https://blog.moneysmart.sg/budgeting/cost-living-singapore/

AussieWog93 5y ago
Hmm, interesting. It seems like things are a little bit more complex over there than here, though, with subsidies given to married couples buying their first home and different tiers for PR/Citizens and everybody else. For example, my Googling seems to suggest that you could buy a 4BR in a new neighbourhood for under 350k. A new estate in Melbourne would be double that, with no public transport or other amenities.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
  > For example, my Googling seems to suggest that you could buy a 4BR in a new neighbourhood for under 350k. A new estate in Melbourne would be double that, with no public transport or other amenities. It's worth noting that Singapore's average household income is around 1/5th that of Australia.
  - AussieWog93 5y ago
    >It's worth noting that Singapore's average household income is around 1/5th that of Australia. A quick Google shows an average household income of $116k AUD for Aussies, and $114k SGD for (resident) Singaporeans. Current exchange rates peg 1 SGD to 0.997 AUD.
    - asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
      Yikes, I'm struggling to see how I got Singapore's income numbers so wrong. I think maybe I misstook the monthly income for the annual? In any case, you're quite right. My previous point was invalid. Unless I'm missing something, I was incorrect about the relative prices of housing in Singapore and Australia.
      - woleium 5y ago
        nice followup :)
      - AussieWog93 5y ago
        Maybe you were reading a stat for foreign (non-resident) workers? They have a bit of a weird caste-esque system where foreign workers from Burma/Indonedia/Phillipines get paid a pittance.

refurb 5y ago

Oh lordy, no, they didn't solve it. If you're not married, you can't get public housing until you're 35. If you do qualify, you have to enter a lottery for the opportunity to choose a unit. The chances of winning the first time are low. Then once you've won, the wait time is 4-5 years before you actually get the place. But people do it because you can buy the unit subsidized, then after ~5 years, you can sell it at market rates. It's basically a free hand out by the governement.