5 ms·

I'm sorry but every bedroom DOES need a window. Packing people into as many small artificially lit rooms as we can fit on a lot is not a great idea. I think we

I'm sorry but every bedroom DOES need a window. Packing people into as many small artificially lit rooms as we can fit on a lot is not a great idea. I think we need to be very careful about relaxing safety guidelines.

anonymoushn 5y ago
It's important to keep people homeless to save them from not having windows.
- vorpalhex 5y ago
  Well it's the burning to death with no means of egress that is mostly the concern. Homelessness is probably better than being burnt alive in a fire that removes your escape avenue.
  - plandis 5y ago
    It’s a relative trade off though. People living in tents will still die to fires but also are going to be exposed to other risks that are likely way less prevalent in a windowless home.
    - anonymoushn 5y ago
      The risk under consideration must be minimized at any cost, including costs much greater than the maximum possible benefit.
  - shuckles 5y ago
    Modern fire codes are good enough that I’d be shocked if a code compliant new building with no windows is less safe than a pre-1960s building with windows.
  - com2kid 5y ago
    Modern fire safety standards are worlds above what they used to be when the requirement for windows went into building codes. I'm not saying it is nice, but I am saying that flop houses and boarding houses filled a need in society that, for many people, is currently being met by living outdoors in tents instead.
naravara 5y ago
> I'm sorry but every bedroom DOES need a window. Packing people into as many small artificially lit rooms as we can fit on a lot is not a great idea. There's a middle ground here. Boarding houses were often just little hostels for having a safe place to sleep and keep your stuff with the expectation that you do most of your living outside, in worksites or parks or public houses (a.k.a. pubs). It's not really inhumane if you don't assume a lifestyle that is lived in the bedroom.
ben_w 5y ago
Having spent my final year of university in a single-glazed private hall of residence on the top of a Welsh hill overlooking the Irish Sea, the lack of insulation (due in part to it being single glazed) was much much worse than if it had been bricked up and I’d been limited to artificial light. Yes, I would’ve missed some spectacular murmurations and a fireworks show in the valley, but it was really cold and the heating wasn’t enough to overcome that.
- xscott 5y ago
  You could've put a piece of foam insulation in that window. Remove it when you want the view or need to escape a fire. There are a lot of compromises between bricks and single pane glass.
  - ben_w 5y ago
    The only reason I could’ve done that then is because I was ridiculously tight with money. All the other tenants didn’t have enough money to spend on even that little — the rent there was structured as a Sam Vimes’ Boots trap, and that principle applies to a lot of things at the low end. I’m not sure that window would’ve been particularly good as a fire escape in any event — as I recall only the top opened, so I’d have had to smash it and climb through broken glass and then jump one story down onto soil now covered in broken glass.
    - mint2 5y ago
      Rethink. A few layers of free cardboard would be about the same as foam.
      - ben_w 5y ago
        That Columbus’ Egg might’ve been useful 16 years ago. But given it didn’t occur to me at the time, I suspect it also won’t occur to most who actually need it — people who are in actual poverty and not just cheapskates like I was.
oh_sigh 5y ago
How does windowless imply packing people? You can pack people into a tiny windowed room. Or you can have a spacious windowless room that a single person occupies.
- 2fast4you 5y ago
  You're right, I think I got mixed up reading two different comments. That was an unfair assumption. I still think a windows should be a requirement for bedrooms regardless of size. Natural sunlight is important for sleep regulation.
slaymaker1907 5y ago
I'd love a room without a window. I have a giant blackout curtain permanently drawn in my bedroom right now, but light and street noise still get in. I live high enough up that jumping out the window during an emergency would just result in my death plus there are plenty of other windows in my apartment.
hackerfromthefu 5y ago
This response is exactly what the op is pointing out - reflexive assertion that something is 'required' without balancing it against the broader picture.

anonymoushn 5y ago

It's important to keep people homeless to save them from not having windows.

vorpalhex 5y ago
Well it's the burning to death with no means of egress that is mostly the concern. Homelessness is probably better than being burnt alive in a fire that removes your escape avenue.
- plandis 5y ago
  It’s a relative trade off though. People living in tents will still die to fires but also are going to be exposed to other risks that are likely way less prevalent in a windowless home.
  - anonymoushn 5y ago
    The risk under consideration must be minimized at any cost, including costs much greater than the maximum possible benefit.
- shuckles 5y ago
  Modern fire codes are good enough that I’d be shocked if a code compliant new building with no windows is less safe than a pre-1960s building with windows.
- com2kid 5y ago
  Modern fire safety standards are worlds above what they used to be when the requirement for windows went into building codes. I'm not saying it is nice, but I am saying that flop houses and boarding houses filled a need in society that, for many people, is currently being met by living outdoors in tents instead.

naravara 5y ago

> I'm sorry but every bedroom DOES need a window. Packing people into as many small artificially lit rooms as we can fit on a lot is not a great idea. There's a middle ground here. Boarding houses were often just little hostels for having a safe place to sleep and keep your stuff with the expectation that you do most of your living outside, in worksites or parks or public houses (a.k.a. pubs). It's not really inhumane if you don't assume a lifestyle that is lived in the bedroom.

ben_w 5y ago

Having spent my final year of university in a single-glazed private hall of residence on the top of a Welsh hill overlooking the Irish Sea, the lack of insulation (due in part to it being single glazed) was much much worse than if it had been bricked up and I’d been limited to artificial light. Yes, I would’ve missed some spectacular murmurations and a fireworks show in the valley, but it was really cold and the heating wasn’t enough to overcome that.

xscott 5y ago
You could've put a piece of foam insulation in that window. Remove it when you want the view or need to escape a fire. There are a lot of compromises between bricks and single pane glass.
- ben_w 5y ago
  The only reason I could’ve done that then is because I was ridiculously tight with money. All the other tenants didn’t have enough money to spend on even that little — the rent there was structured as a Sam Vimes’ Boots trap, and that principle applies to a lot of things at the low end. I’m not sure that window would’ve been particularly good as a fire escape in any event — as I recall only the top opened, so I’d have had to smash it and climb through broken glass and then jump one story down onto soil now covered in broken glass.
  - mint2 5y ago
    Rethink. A few layers of free cardboard would be about the same as foam.
    - ben_w 5y ago
      That Columbus’ Egg might’ve been useful 16 years ago. But given it didn’t occur to me at the time, I suspect it also won’t occur to most who actually need it — people who are in actual poverty and not just cheapskates like I was.

oh_sigh 5y ago

How does windowless imply packing people? You can pack people into a tiny windowed room. Or you can have a spacious windowless room that a single person occupies.

2fast4you 5y ago
You're right, I think I got mixed up reading two different comments. That was an unfair assumption. I still think a windows should be a requirement for bedrooms regardless of size. Natural sunlight is important for sleep regulation.

slaymaker1907 5y ago

I'd love a room without a window. I have a giant blackout curtain permanently drawn in my bedroom right now, but light and street noise still get in. I live high enough up that jumping out the window during an emergency would just result in my death plus there are plenty of other windows in my apartment.

hackerfromthefu 5y ago

This response is exactly what the op is pointing out - reflexive assertion that something is 'required' without balancing it against the broader picture.