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all is subject to definitions. even if the vaccine is medically inappropriate, or even contraindicated for millions? the comatose on life support? mandates it

all is subject to definitions. even if the vaccine is medically inappropriate, or even contraindicated for millions? the comatose on life support? mandates it for foreign travellers in transit who got stuck in your country? mandates for the foreign diplomatic staff? mandates for military, which has their own medical corps and medical decision-making? What is all?

dane-pgp 5y ago
> even if the vaccine is medically inappropriate, or even contraindicated for millions? We've already crossed the Rubicon on this, and countries will justify infringing the rights of millions if a policy has a potential of saving millions more. Fortunately I can't think of a situation where a contagious human virus would be the only or the best way to save millions, but governments have no trouble making the ethically-questionable decision that some groups of people should die through lockdowns in order that other (generally older) groups of people should survive. > mandates it for foreign travellers in transit who got stuck in your country? mandates for the foreign diplomatic staff? A government could announce the policy well in advance, to give people a chance to leave, although the distinction between at home and abroad is moot if the contagion can spread outside the country, which of course it will. Again, sadly, there are plenty of countries that take the view that citizens of other countries have effectively no moral weight and the government has no duty to protect their rights.
- internet_user 5y ago
  Where is this Rubicon you speak of? Yes, people were "nudged" to get vaccinated to by restricting travel and ability to work, aka denial of food and shelter, but not quite physical force yet. However, I don't recall any civilized government using physical force to pin down their subjects and force-vaccinate them.
  - dane-pgp 5y ago
    > I don't recall any civilized government using physical force to pin down their subjects and force-vaccinate them. Austria may have backed down on their plan to mandate vaccination, but Indonesia went ahead with it[0]. Hopefully you don't view that country as uncivilized. It's true that they "only" went as far as fining people who refused, but I'm sure if you refused to pay the fine there would eventually be some arm of the government willing to use force against you. [0] https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/indonesia-makes-covid-19-vaccines-compulsory-allows-for-private-vaccination https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/indonesia-makes-co...

dane-pgp 5y ago

> even if the vaccine is medically inappropriate, or even contraindicated for millions? We've already crossed the Rubicon on this, and countries will justify infringing the rights of millions if a policy has a potential of saving millions more. Fortunately I can't think of a situation where a contagious human virus would be the only or the best way to save millions, but governments have no trouble making the ethically-questionable decision that some groups of people should die through lockdowns in order that other (generally older) groups of people should survive. > mandates it for foreign travellers in transit who got stuck in your country? mandates for the foreign diplomatic staff? A government could announce the policy well in advance, to give people a chance to leave, although the distinction between at home and abroad is moot if the contagion can spread outside the country, which of course it will. Again, sadly, there are plenty of countries that take the view that citizens of other countries have effectively no moral weight and the government has no duty to protect their rights.

internet_user 5y ago
Where is this Rubicon you speak of? Yes, people were "nudged" to get vaccinated to by restricting travel and ability to work, aka denial of food and shelter, but not quite physical force yet. However, I don't recall any civilized government using physical force to pin down their subjects and force-vaccinate them.
- dane-pgp 5y ago
  > I don't recall any civilized government using physical force to pin down their subjects and force-vaccinate them. Austria may have backed down on their plan to mandate vaccination, but Indonesia went ahead with it[0]. Hopefully you don't view that country as uncivilized. It's true that they "only" went as far as fining people who refused, but I'm sure if you refused to pay the fine there would eventually be some arm of the government willing to use force against you. [0] https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/indonesia-makes-covid-19-vaccines-compulsory-allows-for-private-vaccination https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/indonesia-makes-co...