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> 2014 "revolution" was a coup You've provided no evidence for this. Either provide some evidence, or stop calling it a coup. Your [1] is about the US providi

by csee 5y ago

> 2014 "revolution" was a coup You've provided no evidence for this. Either provide some evidence, or stop calling it a coup. Your [1] is about the US providing support to Ukraine against a Russian invasion after the revolution. EDIT: I just saw you posted more than one link, sorry about that. I was already aware of Nuland's leaked call where they're talking about who they want to replace Yanukovych. So? Of course they're going to have such a discussion in the middle of a revolution where someone is about to be ousted and they have relationships with existing people. Regarding the comments of the Estonian FM. Not close to evidence of a coup, or even suggestive. What would Estonia know of a covert CIA plot? This was just that person's opinion. Nobody knew about the Iranian coup outside of the US and Britain, for example. These things are kept under wraps. If Germany's FM was found to have said "it's not a coup", would this journalist have written about it? No. > original referendum to separate DPR and LPR from Ukraine witch al the west say "the vote is invalid because Ukraine constitution do not support secession" but NO ONE say was rigged and 90+% votes for being a new Republic. Actually there are allegations that it was rigged, not to mention the unconstitutional part. > Of course western resources are scarce, but something is easy to find Thank you for these resources. These are very concerning and disgusting people/actions. But it isn't genocide (that's a fairly high bar) and it isn't evidence of neo-nazism in Ukrainian leadership. As I said, Russia has a much bigger neo-fascism problem than Ukraine does. Both in general society (according to polls) and the fact that Putin himself is a literal fascist. > So "minor" that they represent around the totality of non-nazi parties This is yet another false statement on this topic. You're implying here that 90% of the seats are held by neo-Nazis, which is ridiculous. You also ignore the fact that some far-right parties were banned. And you ignore the fact that the root cause is Putin's invasion. > No doubt, and I'm pretty sure it's colleagues from Blackwater have similar tattoos... So you admit that Putin is sending in neo-Nazis to 'denazify' Ukraine. > Surely not, they are just criminals against humanity who push for various war crimes (do you remember Biden position about Belgrade bombing? About Iraq war, based on officially recognized lies?) You discredit yourself by thinking that Iraq is equivalent to Ukraine. Iraq was heinous, but invading in order to depose a totalitarian and cruel and widely hated dictator is not the same thing as invading to destroy a democracy, impose dictatorship, and intentionally shell civilians in near-genocidal fashion. You won't find a defender of Iraq in me, but it's a deeply misguided comparison and part of Russia's propaganda. Anyway; the history of US imperialism is fairly irrelevant. This is about Ukraine and Russia and what's happening now. > With some PRIVATE COMPANIES that ban peoples who say "non aligned" statements Why are you trying to compare a despot who jails or kills people for saying the wrong thing with private companies censoring stuff. In Russia, people go to jail. In the US, people go to rumble.com. Big difference. Anyway, it's irrelevant. > Any country have a bloody story, that's nothing new Am I defending bloody empires from 100 years ago? No. It's irrelevant. Don't bring it up. We are talking about Ukraine and Russia. Russia is an expansionist fascist dictatorship in the year 2022. I am not talking about Nazi Germany in 1940 or the British Empire before that.

kkfx 5y ago
> You've provided no evidence for this. Either provide some evidence, or stop calling it a coup. So you fail to provide evidence of the inverse, failing to ask why at a certain point in time Euromaidan protests arise, why they arrive at the famous referendum, who have created before the so called orange (2.0) revolution of the now-forgotten Yulia Tymoshenko and her curious links to similar movement in Georgia, South Ossetia etc curiously following the same "social (networks) pattern (and networks)" of the so called "Arab springs", those results where new dictatorship replacing others, others originally placed by NATO but then grow strong enough to start looking for independencies and third party alliance... Oh but sure Iraq war was not due to the Saddam choice of selling petrol in euros instead of dollars, Libya was not done by France because Gaddafi drawn a path to substitute the CFA (French controlled money mostly used for commerce in large part of Africa) with a local fiat money etc etc etc Actually colonialism is never ended and we are not born today "in a totally different and completely unconnected from the past manner", history is history so you find various kind of evidence, what's up till now is less easy because there are many interests to avoid publishing of evidences, especially in clear terms for the masses. > Actually there are allegations that it was rigged, not to mention the unconstitutional part. Do you have evidence? BTW the "unconstitutional part" it's a classic joke because no Constitution provides for secession, obviously BUT international chat of human right provide the self-determination right and you probably know the history of Ukraine, of the eastern part in particular passed from Russian oblast (subdivision) to Ukrainian oblast as an administrative act all inside the Soviet Union as a mere reorganization. So you might know that actually east Ukrainian are Russians, changed to Soviet citizenship with the II October revolution and than changed to Ukrainian after the URSS collapse, without having changed their language (still Russian, not Ukrainian) nor their alphabet (both language use a Cyrillic alphabet but with a small set of different letters, not much far from the difference between Greek's Cyrillic and Russian's one). Now you should know the NATO eastward expansion violating post-WWII Yalta agreements from day zero and the obvious series of semi and practical coup NATO orchestrate in eastern Europe to grab a strong power in the region. That's "past" of course, a past still present. > Thank you for these resources. These are very concerning and disgusting people/actions. But it isn't genocide Nazi's does not born with mass extermination camps, it took time to build such machines, Ukrainian nazi's are "young" and far less resourceful than original German's one. They have already done the same Turkey have done on Armenians, it's only a matter of time and that's why I call it a Genocide: it's a clear path to it, ongoing. > This is yet another false statement on this topic. You're implying here that 90% of the seats are held by neo-Nazis You know well that in modern formal, not substantial, "democracies" few steer the masses, with various legislative and propaganda artifice a small minority rule on the rest. Actually the neo-nazis are a minority, of course, but they rule. Not much differently than Italian or French government that represent probably less than 20% of their Citizens but rule on them all. > So you admit that Putin is sending in neo-Nazis to 'denazify' Ukraine. That's nothing to admit: putin is a dictator, but that fact does not imply it's enemy is something different, the the blackbird is black like the crow, that's is. > You discredit yourself by thinking that Iraq is equivalent to Ukraine. Iraq was heinous, but invading in order to depose a totalitarian and cruel and widely hated dictator is not the same thing as invading to destroy a democracy Again you look at a mirror: Iraq was definitively not invaded to depose a dictator, USA rulers love dictatorial regimes and have planted plenty of them around the world to steal natural resources or for political reasons. The reasons behind Iraq invasion with the LIE of mass destruction weapons, genocide etc was the fact that Saddam look for erase dollar dominance, the same thing that actually happen but at a scale USA can't react with force because they can face Iraq but they can't face Russia, China, Iran, India etc. USA and UK are so-called ruled by a talax-centered clepto-corporatocracy, they need to dominate the seas to remain alive, they need third parties resources to remain alive avoiding a domestic coup of their Citizens against their domestic oppressors. At a certain point in time after WWII the rest of the world have started saying stop. They do the usual business: undermine the opponent, repress them etc. For little targets "they succeed" to a small extent (Chile, Guatemala, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Somalia etc) but fails on larger target (like Iran itself), they need western Europe technology to remain in power: USA and UK school system is highly ranked in propaganda terms but in reality it need people have studied in other, really effective, systems and pay them well. USA aviation was built by Germans, IT revolution was born out of western Europeans and Japaneses etc, well paid, well welcomed etc. Nowadays that system does not work anymore, USA are attractive for Indians for instance, but not anymore for Europeans or Japaneses etc and Indian school system is not equally effective. Europe is still the center of the world and have started to came back to power with a rapprochement to Russia (witch is actually Europe, geographically, till the Urals). So they need to stop such move. The other big geopolitical threat is the need for China to grab south America resources just to nourish is citizens and industries. Europe is the first, most urgent need, China the second one. But they know their dominance is about to fail since decades: https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/Global%20Trends_Mapping%20the%20Global%20Future%202020%20Project.pdf https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/Global%20Trends_Mapping%... so the tentative was the Great Reset generated by the Green New Deal, designing a new world to rebuild the table. A world designed as the USA and the UK neoliberals have designed their own countries. That's is and the main issue for us "westerns" is that that's not OUR interest, actually is against our interests, it the interest of our dictatorship witch are no better than Russian, Iranian or Chinese regimes, just different because they are born out of different populations and so histories. Between the '800 and '900 many cohort of population have understood that and they unite and revolt, 30+years of war in '800, two world war in the '900 almost wipe out those revolts but not entirely, now it's just the suite. > Why are you trying to compare a despot who jails or kills people for saying the wrong thing with private companies censoring stuff. In Russia, people go to jail. In the US, people go to rumble.com. Big difference. Anyway, it's irrelevant. Because such difference does not really exists if not marginal. In Russia I know few guys and so I hear what's up from local sources: there is in reality not much more repression than here, it have slightly different forms, but it's not really different. Our regimes do kill and jail when they need it (did you remember Assange, just to cite one?) but having a better propaganda they need a bit less. Our propaganda talk about incidents in those cases, while rightly talk about homicide for the other side. So they do in Russia. Actually I prefer formal state killing because that means Citizens know your enemy clearly. Our "soft" version is more effective against Citizens because having no uniforms, no formal doctrine the actual regime is stronger: it's hard to find who you do not know. > Am I defending bloody empires from 100 years ago? No. It's irrelevant. It's not because we are here due to the history, and the history change things, but remain the same across millennials.

by csee 5y ago

kkfx 5y ago

> You've provided no evidence for this. Either provide some evidence, or stop calling it a coup. So you fail to provide evidence of the inverse, failing to ask why at a certain point in time Euromaidan protests arise, why they arrive at the famous referendum, who have created before the so called orange (2.0) revolution of the now-forgotten Yulia Tymoshenko and her curious links to similar movement in Georgia, South Ossetia etc curiously following the same "social (networks) pattern (and networks)" of the so called "Arab springs", those results where new dictatorship replacing others, others originally placed by NATO but then grow strong enough to start looking for independencies and third party alliance... Oh but sure Iraq war was not due to the Saddam choice of selling petrol in euros instead of dollars, Libya was not done by France because Gaddafi drawn a path to substitute the CFA (French controlled money mostly used for commerce in large part of Africa) with a local fiat money etc etc etc Actually colonialism is never ended and we are not born today "in a totally different and completely unconnected from the past manner", history is history so you find various kind of evidence, what's up till now is less easy because there are many interests to avoid publishing of evidences, especially in clear terms for the masses. > Actually there are allegations that it was rigged, not to mention the unconstitutional part. Do you have evidence? BTW the "unconstitutional part" it's a classic joke because no Constitution provides for secession, obviously BUT international chat of human right provide the self-determination right and you probably know the history of Ukraine, of the eastern part in particular passed from Russian oblast (subdivision) to Ukrainian oblast as an administrative act all inside the Soviet Union as a mere reorganization. So you might know that actually east Ukrainian are Russians, changed to Soviet citizenship with the II October revolution and than changed to Ukrainian after the URSS collapse, without having changed their language (still Russian, not Ukrainian) nor their alphabet (both language use a Cyrillic alphabet but with a small set of different letters, not much far from the difference between Greek's Cyrillic and Russian's one). Now you should know the NATO eastward expansion violating post-WWII Yalta agreements from day zero and the obvious series of semi and practical coup NATO orchestrate in eastern Europe to grab a strong power in the region. That's "past" of course, a past still present. > Thank you for these resources. These are very concerning and disgusting people/actions. But it isn't genocide Nazi's does not born with mass extermination camps, it took time to build such machines, Ukrainian nazi's are "young" and far less resourceful than original German's one. They have already done the same Turkey have done on Armenians, it's only a matter of time and that's why I call it a Genocide: it's a clear path to it, ongoing. > This is yet another false statement on this topic. You're implying here that 90% of the seats are held by neo-Nazis You know well that in modern formal, not substantial, "democracies" few steer the masses, with various legislative and propaganda artifice a small minority rule on the rest. Actually the neo-nazis are a minority, of course, but they rule. Not much differently than Italian or French government that represent probably less than 20% of their Citizens but rule on them all. > So you admit that Putin is sending in neo-Nazis to 'denazify' Ukraine. That's nothing to admit: putin is a dictator, but that fact does not imply it's enemy is something different, the the blackbird is black like the crow, that's is. > You discredit yourself by thinking that Iraq is equivalent to Ukraine. Iraq was heinous, but invading in order to depose a totalitarian and cruel and widely hated dictator is not the same thing as invading to destroy a democracy Again you look at a mirror: Iraq was definitively not invaded to depose a dictator, USA rulers love dictatorial regimes and have planted plenty of them around the world to steal natural resources or for political reasons. The reasons behind Iraq invasion with the LIE of mass destruction weapons, genocide etc was the fact that Saddam look for erase dollar dominance, the same thing that actually happen but at a scale USA can't react with force because they can face Iraq but they can't face Russia, China, Iran, India etc. USA and UK are so-called ruled by a talax-centered clepto-corporatocracy, they need to dominate the seas to remain alive, they need third parties resources to remain alive avoiding a domestic coup of their Citizens against their domestic oppressors. At a certain point in time after WWII the rest of the world have started saying stop. They do the usual business: undermine the opponent, repress them etc. For little targets "they succeed" to a small extent (Chile, Guatemala, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Somalia etc) but fails on larger target (like Iran itself), they need western Europe technology to remain in power: USA and UK school system is highly ranked in propaganda terms but in reality it need people have studied in other, really effective, systems and pay them well. USA aviation was built by Germans, IT revolution was born out of western Europeans and Japaneses etc, well paid, well welcomed etc. Nowadays that system does not work anymore, USA are attractive for Indians for instance, but not anymore for Europeans or Japaneses etc and Indian school system is not equally effective. Europe is still the center of the world and have started to came back to power with a rapprochement to Russia (witch is actually Europe, geographically, till the Urals). So they need to stop such move. The other big geopolitical threat is the need for China to grab south America resources just to nourish is citizens and industries. Europe is the first, most urgent need, China the second one. But they know their dominance is about to fail since decades: https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/Global%20Trends_Mapping%20the%20Global%20Future%202020%20Project.pdf https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/Global%20Trends_Mapping%... so the tentative was the Great Reset generated by the Green New Deal, designing a new world to rebuild the table. A world designed as the USA and the UK neoliberals have designed their own countries. That's is and the main issue for us "westerns" is that that's not OUR interest, actually is against our interests, it the interest of our dictatorship witch are no better than Russian, Iranian or Chinese regimes, just different because they are born out of different populations and so histories. Between the '800 and '900 many cohort of population have understood that and they unite and revolt, 30+years of war in '800, two world war in the '900 almost wipe out those revolts but not entirely, now it's just the suite. > Why are you trying to compare a despot who jails or kills people for saying the wrong thing with private companies censoring stuff. In Russia, people go to jail. In the US, people go to rumble.com. Big difference. Anyway, it's irrelevant. Because such difference does not really exists if not marginal. In Russia I know few guys and so I hear what's up from local sources: there is in reality not much more repression than here, it have slightly different forms, but it's not really different. Our regimes do kill and jail when they need it (did you remember Assange, just to cite one?) but having a better propaganda they need a bit less. Our propaganda talk about incidents in those cases, while rightly talk about homicide for the other side. So they do in Russia. Actually I prefer formal state killing because that means Citizens know your enemy clearly. Our "soft" version is more effective against Citizens because having no uniforms, no formal doctrine the actual regime is stronger: it's hard to find who you do not know. > Am I defending bloody empires from 100 years ago? No. It's irrelevant. It's not because we are here due to the history, and the history change things, but remain the same across millennials.