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Does anybody know why Germany isn't really using their domestic gas fields? According to the german EPA equivalent[1] there's enough for 10 years of usage. Whi

Does anybody know why Germany isn't really using their domestic gas fields? According to the german EPA equivalent[1] there's enough for 10 years of usage. While I agree with the need to shut off Nordstream I, I am not sure Germany can afford this right now due to historically low gas reserves [2]. I have to disagree with the tone of the statement "We can afford the consequences". Who is "we"? The lower middle class of Germany, who already suffers some of the highest taxes in the world and the highest energy prices in the world? The government clearly does not care about energy prices: Gas prices are nearly 50% taxed, are they willing to lower it for lower income families? No. [1] https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/service/uba-fragen/wie-gross-sind-die-erdgas-vorkommen-in-deutschland https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/service/uba-fragen/wie-gross-... [2] https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/deutschland/politik/erdgas-russland-ukraine-gasspeicher-100.html https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/deutschland/politik/erdgas-ru...

est31 5y ago
Those 10 years require the use of fracking, which is I think too bad for the environment, especially for a country as densely populated as Germany. The resources that don't require fracking are only enough for 1-2 years of consumption at current levels.
- sendfoods 5y ago
  That would be enough until we get LPG from Qatar, which is being reported as the earliest in Summer 2023.
  - est31 5y ago
    Not sure how realistic it is to access the resources in such a short time frame.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- toss1 5y ago
  Germany just today cut a NatGas deal with Qatar to reduce RUS dependence [0]. They are certainly looking, as they should. I'd say the biggest issue with the local fields is that they are likely undeveloped, and that takes time before the oil flows. Ironically, from what I've gathered watching the US fields, the fracking wells take less time to turn on/off vs the more ordinary wells. If Germany can turn on any local wells, especially quickly, it should help significantly, since the big issue is to buy time - time to switch to new sources of NatGas/Oil, and time to replace sinks with renewables. Also to consider is the relative harm from some short-term drilling & fracking, vs the damage if RUS has the funds to expand their aggression into more of the EU. [0] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/20/germany-seals-gas-deal-with-qatar-to-reduce-dependence-on-russia https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/20/germany-seals-gas-d...
cm2187 5y ago
And Germany has a third blow coming if Xi decides to invade Taiwan, and Europe decides to stop trade with China in retaliation (given the high dependence of the German economy on exports to China).
bryanlarsen 5y ago
> Gas prices are nearly 50% taxed, are they willing to lower it for lower income families? No. Lowering gas taxes is an effective subsidy for Russia. They should do something to offset the impact. Something like Canada's carbon tax rebate, for instance. Give the money to consumers rather than indirectly to Russia.
- sendfoods 5y ago
  Could you elaborate? Why is it a subsidy for Russia? Wouldn't it be a pretty unbureaucratic measure with immediate benefit for the consumer?
  - bryanlarsen 5y ago
    Lowering the price of something increases the demand.
    - internet_user 5y ago
      demand for gasoline is fairly inelastic.
      - danans 5y ago
        There is a lot that can be done in the short term to economize gasoline consumption while still going about day to day business: lower speed limits, buying more fuel efficient cars - or cars that need no fuel at all, carpooling, using more public transit. https://www.iea.org/reports/a-10-point-plan-to-cut-oil-use https://www.iea.org/reports/a-10-point-plan-to-cut-oil-use
lambdasquirrel 5y ago
An unfortunate and overlooked fact is that Europe (Germany in particular) effectively exported the resource curse problem to Russia, which was probably the country in its sphere least likely to deal with it well. Hindsight is 20/20. Besides the fact that we can't exactly build infrastructure for those gas fields overnight, I think Germany wants to avoid any association with sort of problem. The fear I would have is that they'd have to get that gas from the U.S. / Canada, which exports the resource curse problem to the U.S. and Canada instead. Meanwhile, how Germany is going to solve the spot-generation problem, is unclear.
- spixy 5y ago
  oh yes classic western solution to outsource environmental problems to other countries
hogrider 5y ago
They're saving it for the SHTF I guess.

est31 5y ago

Those 10 years require the use of fracking, which is I think too bad for the environment, especially for a country as densely populated as Germany. The resources that don't require fracking are only enough for 1-2 years of consumption at current levels.

sendfoods 5y ago
That would be enough until we get LPG from Qatar, which is being reported as the earliest in Summer 2023.
- est31 5y ago
  Not sure how realistic it is to access the resources in such a short time frame.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
toss1 5y ago
Germany just today cut a NatGas deal with Qatar to reduce RUS dependence [0]. They are certainly looking, as they should. I'd say the biggest issue with the local fields is that they are likely undeveloped, and that takes time before the oil flows. Ironically, from what I've gathered watching the US fields, the fracking wells take less time to turn on/off vs the more ordinary wells. If Germany can turn on any local wells, especially quickly, it should help significantly, since the big issue is to buy time - time to switch to new sources of NatGas/Oil, and time to replace sinks with renewables. Also to consider is the relative harm from some short-term drilling & fracking, vs the damage if RUS has the funds to expand their aggression into more of the EU. [0] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/20/germany-seals-gas-deal-with-qatar-to-reduce-dependence-on-russia https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/20/germany-seals-gas-d...

cm2187 5y ago

And Germany has a third blow coming if Xi decides to invade Taiwan, and Europe decides to stop trade with China in retaliation (given the high dependence of the German economy on exports to China).

bryanlarsen 5y ago

> Gas prices are nearly 50% taxed, are they willing to lower it for lower income families? No. Lowering gas taxes is an effective subsidy for Russia. They should do something to offset the impact. Something like Canada's carbon tax rebate, for instance. Give the money to consumers rather than indirectly to Russia.

sendfoods 5y ago
Could you elaborate? Why is it a subsidy for Russia? Wouldn't it be a pretty unbureaucratic measure with immediate benefit for the consumer?
- bryanlarsen 5y ago
  Lowering the price of something increases the demand.
  - internet_user 5y ago
    demand for gasoline is fairly inelastic.
    - danans 5y ago
      There is a lot that can be done in the short term to economize gasoline consumption while still going about day to day business: lower speed limits, buying more fuel efficient cars - or cars that need no fuel at all, carpooling, using more public transit. https://www.iea.org/reports/a-10-point-plan-to-cut-oil-use https://www.iea.org/reports/a-10-point-plan-to-cut-oil-use

lambdasquirrel 5y ago

An unfortunate and overlooked fact is that Europe (Germany in particular) effectively exported the resource curse problem to Russia, which was probably the country in its sphere least likely to deal with it well. Hindsight is 20/20. Besides the fact that we can't exactly build infrastructure for those gas fields overnight, I think Germany wants to avoid any association with sort of problem. The fear I would have is that they'd have to get that gas from the U.S. / Canada, which exports the resource curse problem to the U.S. and Canada instead. Meanwhile, how Germany is going to solve the spot-generation problem, is unclear.

spixy 5y ago
oh yes classic western solution to outsource environmental problems to other countries

hogrider 5y ago

They're saving it for the SHTF I guess.