4 ms·

I don't mean materialism as in a love of money or material goods. I mean materialism as in believing that truth claims must be verified with empirical, physical

I don't mean materialism as in a love of money or material goods. I mean materialism as in believing that truth claims must be verified with empirical, physical evidence. People in traditional societies do not think physicality or empiricism is the primary way of determining what is true. These people are showing you that fear, desperation, and hope lead them to believing a narrative that requires them to take another human being's life in the hope of gaining some physical advantage for themselves. They are literally sacrificing another human being for the hope of improving their own future. Is what they are doing based on some empirical evidence? No. Are the effects of what they believe still real? Yes. Their hierarchy of ontology has a coherence of its own and allows their society to function, and is a very ancient structure. The concept of the "evil eye" (which is tightly related to these African practices) is a very old mechanism for managing wealth (and good or bad fortune) in communities for thousands of years. To come along and say "well, this is nonsense. Let's convince them they're wrong by using physical evidence to prove it!" seems pretty hubristic.

beaconstudios 5y ago
Or in other words, you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
- mixedCase 5y ago
  Yes, you can. Not everyone, not all beliefs, but it's certainly not futile to try.
  - AvocadoPanic 5y ago
    Isn't attempting to divert native peoples from their traditional beliefs, customs and traditions colonialism?
    - mixedCase 5y ago
      It certainly is if in the process you establish a colony there and start taking lands by force. People who do that also try to erase any previously existing culture, good and evil beliefs alike. Otherwise, no. In this particular case, you'd simply be trying to get people to stop killing innocents in the name of spiritual/religious beliefs; something that is clearly evil and, in my opinion, so is anyone who tries to pretend it is not whether they believe that honestly or is just arguing in bad faith.
wonderwonder 5y ago
fair enough, I saw you using the word in a different manner, my apologies. At the same time though, their actions are the very real world murder and mutilation of innocents. Hubris or not, I think in this situation its ok to shake one's head and be pretty outraged and disappointed in their beliefs and the actions that they lead too. Not sure of the solution but one does not have to feel bad for not attempting to empathize with people that are murdering others for supernatural profit.

beaconstudios 5y ago

Or in other words, you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

mixedCase 5y ago
Yes, you can. Not everyone, not all beliefs, but it's certainly not futile to try.
- AvocadoPanic 5y ago
  Isn't attempting to divert native peoples from their traditional beliefs, customs and traditions colonialism?
  - mixedCase 5y ago
    It certainly is if in the process you establish a colony there and start taking lands by force. People who do that also try to erase any previously existing culture, good and evil beliefs alike. Otherwise, no. In this particular case, you'd simply be trying to get people to stop killing innocents in the name of spiritual/religious beliefs; something that is clearly evil and, in my opinion, so is anyone who tries to pretend it is not whether they believe that honestly or is just arguing in bad faith.

wonderwonder 5y ago

fair enough, I saw you using the word in a different manner, my apologies. At the same time though, their actions are the very real world murder and mutilation of innocents. Hubris or not, I think in this situation its ok to shake one's head and be pretty outraged and disappointed in their beliefs and the actions that they lead too. Not sure of the solution but one does not have to feel bad for not attempting to empathize with people that are murdering others for supernatural profit.