> describe where our universe came from ... that obeys the laws of cause and effect All you've done is ask a trick question, like "prove Fermat's Last Theorem

> describe where our universe came from ... that obeys the laws of cause and effect All you've done is ask a trick question, like "prove Fermat's Last Theorem without using any math". The problem is you used the words "where", which means "a place in the universe", and "cause and effect", which means "tracing the causes of something backward in time", with "time" again existing only within this universe. It's a little like Zeno's Paradox of Achilles and the tortoise. All we've found is that this particular way of asking the question or describing the question is insufficient. Obviously in order to prove Fermat's Last Theorem, you need to use math. Obviously to talk about anything "external" to the universe, you need to use something that is not a "where" within this universe and does not follow the cause and effect defined within this universe. The question is: is it, therefore, useful to ask the question, given that we are stuck in this universe? No. It's not.