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> 2014 coup The 2014 revolution (not coup in the classic sense) followed by the recent non-rigged (unlike in Russia) democratic election in which the current

by csee 5y ago

> 2014 coup The 2014 revolution (not coup in the classic sense) followed by the recent non-rigged (unlike in Russia) democratic election in which the current leader was elected in a landslide of popular support. > commit a slow genocide on it's own Russian-speaking part of population, around 30% or so Source? I am aware of one warcrime most likely committed by Ukraine-aligned troops (potentially Azov) in the Donbas that were pointed out by Human Rights Watch. They killed like 15 civilians in criminal shelling. Haven't seen evidence that would amount towards the claim of genocide, which is a high bar. > Just now they decide to ban all other parties That's false. They didn't ban all other parties. They banned 11 minority parties that constituted about 10% of the seats which had ties to the country that is currently invading them. Some far-right ones (which get like 2% of the vote) and mostly far-left ones. If Russia hadn't invaded, guess what, this wouldn't have happened. > force all broadcasts to spread just government propaganda. You mean forced to spread government information? That's correct. They are being invaded by Russia and so they invoked these kind of martial law measures which would be concerning in any other context. The root cause of martial law in Ukraine is the Russian invasion. If you have a problem with martial law in Ukraine, then blame the country that is invading Ukraine. > At least putin have killed single individuals who are against him, nothing new under the Sun Actually, it's not normal to kill domestic political opponents and journalists. > So fat he finance some nazis, and mercenaries of similar kind (Wagner), but fur less than NATO-armed, trained and financed Azov, Pravy Sektor, C14 et al. and for the mercenaries nothing different than Blackwater and co. The head of Wagner is an actual Nazi, with SS tattoos on his neck. Putin sent this literal Nazi's henchmen into Ukraine under the guise of 'denazification'. I will admit that the Nazis in Azov are a huge problem, but if you were a small country that had to defend against Russian aggression, you can't afford to pick and choose who's going to help defend your country. Empirical proof: Azov is proving hugely useful in delaying the Russian invasion in Mariupol. If they have kicked Azov out, Mariupol may have already fallen. Again - the root problem here is Russian aggression. If Russia wasn't a threat, they wouldn't have to resort to desperate measures like this. If you don't like Azov, then blame Russia, because without Russia, Ukraine wouldn't have any need of Azov. > In purely political criminality terms putin is a criminal like Biden, Trump or Jonson No. Biden et al are not ultranationalist despots who murder their political opponents, rig elections, ban free speech, and invade democracies.

kkfx 5y ago
> The 2014 revolution (not coup) followed by the recent non-rigged (unlike in Russia) democratic election I'm sorry, but I know few Ukrainians, certainly not enough to compute statistics but enough to have some local insights, 2014 "revolution" was a coup, pushed by NATO and you can find few infos in our press btw [1], interesting the SOLE "democratic" in the sense that NO ONE in the world, USA included, state otherwise was the original referendum to separate DPR and LPR from Ukraine witch al the west say "the vote is invalid because Ukraine constitution do not support secession" but NO ONE say was rigged and 90+% votes for being a new Republic. > Source? I am aware of one warcrime most likely committed by Ukraine-aligned troops (potentially Azov) in the Donbas that were pointed out by Human Rights Watch. Just read about the aforementioned coup: did you think some Russians decide a day in 2014 to indict a referendum just to do something in the afternoon? Of course western resources are scarce, but something is easy to find https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2019-003694_EN.html https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2019-00369... https://khpg.org/en/1540419843 https://khpg.org/en/1540419843 https://www.ofpra.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/atoms/files/1811_ukr_violences_groupes_ultranationalistes_0.pdf https://www.ofpra.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/atoms/files/18... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27173857 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27173857 https://www.news18.com/news/world/azov-battalion-accused-of-committing-inhuman-crimes-against-ukrainians-theyre-supposed-to-protect-4893575.html https://www.news18.com/news/world/azov-battalion-accused-of-... https://www.dw.com/en/the-azov-battalion-extremists-defending-mariupol/a-61151151 https://www.dw.com/en/the-azov-battalion-extremists-defendin... > That's false. They didn't ban all other parties. They banned 11 minority parties So "minor" that they represent around the totality of non-nazi parties... Curiously mostly on the left (you might not know but putin in Russia is considered from the right, the left oppose it, far more than some local nazis depicted as heroes in the west like Navalny... > You mean forced to spread government information? Surely government call that information, others call that narrative... Do remember that ALL dictators do not say they are dictators... > The head of Wagner is an actual Nazi, with SS tattoos on his neck. No doubt, and I'm pretty sure it's colleagues from Blackwater have similar tattoos... > No. Biden et al are not ultranationalist despots who murder their political opponents, rig elections, ban free speech, and invade democracies. Surely not, they are just criminals against humanity who push for various war crimes (do you remember Biden position about Belgrade bombing? About Iraq war, based on officially recognized lies?) and others crimes... Actually they have indirectly murdered probably far more people than putin. On banning free speech... Did you see our media? With some PRIVATE COMPANIES that ban peoples who say "non aligned" statements including for instance a facebook ban to the British Medical Journal "for covid misinformation"? The direct ban to Russian's media "they are source of fake news" etc? That's have a name: censorship. In free countries even media who push fake news have the right to do so. In the west apparently the actual censorship is not much different than the Chinese one and do not only happen at State level but also at private companies levels. On invasions... Iraq? Afganistan? FORMALLY invaded laying to our people? Libya? Syria? Somalia? Just to name few recent, but you can go in the recent past like Guatemala coup led by Eduard Bernays propaganda campain for the United Fruit co and the USA army, or the Chilean coup to evict Allende placing a recognized criminal dictator (Pinochet)? Do you want to keep going in the recent history? Any country have a bloody story, that's nothing new: Russia itself have crushed countless of small States during their history, but if we summarize the history the most violent talk in English, Belgian, Dutch, Spain follow, Portugal and Spain follow, Russia and China follow. But just see the recent USA politics: most say that Trump and Biden are completely different governments, now try to study their acts, they have done the same things. Of course, the public face is FAR different, the narrative is far different but the substance? [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/melikkaylan/2014/04/16/why-cia-director-brennan-visited-kiev-in-ukraine-the-covert-war-has-begun/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/melikkaylan/2014/04/16/why-cia-... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia... https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/06/04/how-and-why-the-u-s-government-perpetrated-the-2014-coup-in-ukraine/ https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/06/04/how-and-why-the-u-s-go... https://multipolarista.com/2022/03/18/cia-trained-ukrainians-2014/ https://multipolarista.com/2022/03/18/cia-trained-ukrainians... https://www.jstor.org/stable/24483306 https://www.jstor.org/stable/24483306

by csee 5y ago

kkfx 5y ago

> The 2014 revolution (not coup) followed by the recent non-rigged (unlike in Russia) democratic election I'm sorry, but I know few Ukrainians, certainly not enough to compute statistics but enough to have some local insights, 2014 "revolution" was a coup, pushed by NATO and you can find few infos in our press btw [1], interesting the SOLE "democratic" in the sense that NO ONE in the world, USA included, state otherwise was the original referendum to separate DPR and LPR from Ukraine witch al the west say "the vote is invalid because Ukraine constitution do not support secession" but NO ONE say was rigged and 90+% votes for being a new Republic. > Source? I am aware of one warcrime most likely committed by Ukraine-aligned troops (potentially Azov) in the Donbas that were pointed out by Human Rights Watch. Just read about the aforementioned coup: did you think some Russians decide a day in 2014 to indict a referendum just to do something in the afternoon? Of course western resources are scarce, but something is easy to find https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2019-003694_EN.html https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2019-00369... https://khpg.org/en/1540419843 https://khpg.org/en/1540419843 https://www.ofpra.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/atoms/files/1811_ukr_violences_groupes_ultranationalistes_0.pdf https://www.ofpra.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/atoms/files/18... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27173857 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27173857 https://www.news18.com/news/world/azov-battalion-accused-of-committing-inhuman-crimes-against-ukrainians-theyre-supposed-to-protect-4893575.html https://www.news18.com/news/world/azov-battalion-accused-of-... https://www.dw.com/en/the-azov-battalion-extremists-defending-mariupol/a-61151151 https://www.dw.com/en/the-azov-battalion-extremists-defendin... > That's false. They didn't ban all other parties. They banned 11 minority parties So "minor" that they represent around the totality of non-nazi parties... Curiously mostly on the left (you might not know but putin in Russia is considered from the right, the left oppose it, far more than some local nazis depicted as heroes in the west like Navalny... > You mean forced to spread government information? Surely government call that information, others call that narrative... Do remember that ALL dictators do not say they are dictators... > The head of Wagner is an actual Nazi, with SS tattoos on his neck. No doubt, and I'm pretty sure it's colleagues from Blackwater have similar tattoos... > No. Biden et al are not ultranationalist despots who murder their political opponents, rig elections, ban free speech, and invade democracies. Surely not, they are just criminals against humanity who push for various war crimes (do you remember Biden position about Belgrade bombing? About Iraq war, based on officially recognized lies?) and others crimes... Actually they have indirectly murdered probably far more people than putin. On banning free speech... Did you see our media? With some PRIVATE COMPANIES that ban peoples who say "non aligned" statements including for instance a facebook ban to the British Medical Journal "for covid misinformation"? The direct ban to Russian's media "they are source of fake news" etc? That's have a name: censorship. In free countries even media who push fake news have the right to do so. In the west apparently the actual censorship is not much different than the Chinese one and do not only happen at State level but also at private companies levels. On invasions... Iraq? Afganistan? FORMALLY invaded laying to our people? Libya? Syria? Somalia? Just to name few recent, but you can go in the recent past like Guatemala coup led by Eduard Bernays propaganda campain for the United Fruit co and the USA army, or the Chilean coup to evict Allende placing a recognized criminal dictator (Pinochet)? Do you want to keep going in the recent history? Any country have a bloody story, that's nothing new: Russia itself have crushed countless of small States during their history, but if we summarize the history the most violent talk in English, Belgian, Dutch, Spain follow, Portugal and Spain follow, Russia and China follow. But just see the recent USA politics: most say that Trump and Biden are completely different governments, now try to study their acts, they have done the same things. Of course, the public face is FAR different, the narrative is far different but the substance? [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/melikkaylan/2014/04/16/why-cia-director-brennan-visited-kiev-in-ukraine-the-covert-war-has-begun/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/melikkaylan/2014/04/16/why-cia-... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia... https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/06/04/how-and-why-the-u-s-government-perpetrated-the-2014-coup-in-ukraine/ https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/06/04/how-and-why-the-u-s-go... https://multipolarista.com/2022/03/18/cia-trained-ukrainians-2014/ https://multipolarista.com/2022/03/18/cia-trained-ukrainians... https://www.jstor.org/stable/24483306 https://www.jstor.org/stable/24483306