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This seems like a repeating pattern: brilliant tech visionaries attempting to undermine political/financial power with technology. Every time this is attempted

This seems like a repeating pattern: brilliant tech visionaries attempting to undermine political/financial power with technology. Every time this is attempted it's subverted either by the application of power (firewalls, censorship, KYC/obscenity laws) or money (acquisitions, embrace extend extinguish, advertising[1], astroturf/spam). It seems like there might be a persistent gap in STEM education where each new generation of hackers is unaware of the underlying societal reasons why such attempts fail and convinces themselves: "this time it's going to be different". [1] By this I mean that if a platform decides to be ad-funded, they often begin to self-censor to stay in the advertiser's good graces. Over time this gives increasing power to large advertisers to control content - see: Youtube.

emerged 5y ago
Makes me question that they are in fact “brilliant tech visionaries” — most of us have been able to see through the bullshit for many years. It’s mostly greed and naivety.
tablespoon 5y ago
> It seems like there might be a persistent gap in STEM education where each new generation of hackers is unaware of the underlying societal reasons why such attempts fail and convinces themselves: "this time it's going to be different". I think that's true. More broadly, I think it's a totally unfounded belief that computer technology can somehow transcend human nature coupled with a general ignorance, disinterest, or even contempt for non-computer technology. Take cryptocurrency: in large part its original vision was rooted in contempt for law (a kind of social technology), which just meant it repeated a bunch of mistakes that have been solved in well-developed legal systems, with little to no value-add.
- bmitc 5y ago
  > More broadly, I think it's a totally unfounded belief that computer technology can somehow transcend human nature coupled with a general ignorance, disinterest, or even contempt for non-computer technology. This is an excellent point and the crux of the matter. Technology, particularly software-related technology, provides an amplification effect of the worst of humanity. I'm reminded of the scene in 2001: A Space Odyssey where the chimps discover bones as weapons. Well, now that bone is the Internet. There's this belief amongst technocrats is that we can somehow be saved by technology. A good documentary on this is Adam Curtis' All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace.
biophysboy 5y ago
The funny thing is to fill this gap in a STEM education, all you really need is a single book on the recent history of any poorer country.
hackerfromthefu 5y ago
People try to do it with tech because it's easier, it's much harder to work politically to cause change. But ultimately that's what's required to enact real change, as we have seen the technical tools will be coopted by the political powers.
beaconstudios 5y ago
It's essentially the techno libertarian dream - build a profitable business that makes the world a better place. Unfortunately, profit and making the world a better place are pretty diametrically opposed given that profit is the centralisation of power and most social ills are caused by power imbalances. The error libertarians have always made is thinking that the problem of concentration of power is solely an issue with the government and not an inherent issue with markets.

emerged 5y ago

Makes me question that they are in fact “brilliant tech visionaries” — most of us have been able to see through the bullshit for many years. It’s mostly greed and naivety.

tablespoon 5y ago

> It seems like there might be a persistent gap in STEM education where each new generation of hackers is unaware of the underlying societal reasons why such attempts fail and convinces themselves: "this time it's going to be different". I think that's true. More broadly, I think it's a totally unfounded belief that computer technology can somehow transcend human nature coupled with a general ignorance, disinterest, or even contempt for non-computer technology. Take cryptocurrency: in large part its original vision was rooted in contempt for law (a kind of social technology), which just meant it repeated a bunch of mistakes that have been solved in well-developed legal systems, with little to no value-add.

bmitc 5y ago
> More broadly, I think it's a totally unfounded belief that computer technology can somehow transcend human nature coupled with a general ignorance, disinterest, or even contempt for non-computer technology. This is an excellent point and the crux of the matter. Technology, particularly software-related technology, provides an amplification effect of the worst of humanity. I'm reminded of the scene in 2001: A Space Odyssey where the chimps discover bones as weapons. Well, now that bone is the Internet. There's this belief amongst technocrats is that we can somehow be saved by technology. A good documentary on this is Adam Curtis' All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace.

biophysboy 5y ago

The funny thing is to fill this gap in a STEM education, all you really need is a single book on the recent history of any poorer country.

hackerfromthefu 5y ago

People try to do it with tech because it's easier, it's much harder to work politically to cause change. But ultimately that's what's required to enact real change, as we have seen the technical tools will be coopted by the political powers.

beaconstudios 5y ago

It's essentially the techno libertarian dream - build a profitable business that makes the world a better place. Unfortunately, profit and making the world a better place are pretty diametrically opposed given that profit is the centralisation of power and most social ills are caused by power imbalances. The error libertarians have always made is thinking that the problem of concentration of power is solely an issue with the government and not an inherent issue with markets.