7 ms·

I know that a lot of people hates apple, but I love to see their hardware and I think they are innovating in certain areas that I'd hope amd/intel start copying

I know that a lot of people hates apple, but I love to see their hardware and I think they are innovating in certain areas that I'd hope amd/intel start copying, like the unified memory, if they start working in that direction it will change the PC world forever (also they need to add more memory channels to their processors, 2 is just not enough for this feature). Also the PCB design looks cool, but they are not the only ones, if you buy a mid/premium gaming motherboard they are also beautiful.

sgjohnson 5y ago
> unified memory Please dear god no. First, it already exists (shared memory with GPU). Second, implementing it in the same way as Apple basically requires an SoC.
- Dobbs 5y ago
  Yes unified memory already exists it isn't some newfangled thing. That said Apple is the only modern consumer brand doing it for a Laptop/Desktop. It definitely has some downsides, but it also does have some upsides.
- norman784 5y ago
  Yes, but you need to setup in the bios how much memory you want to dedicate to the gpu, while apples approach afaik doesn't gpu/cpu can access the same memory, so if you for example want to game and the game requires more memory than the cpu you can get as much as ram you have. I'm on having the cpu/gpu integrated, but more powerful, if apple can do it, then amd/intel can do it too, but I suspect amd will lose their dedicated gpu market, while intel could gain more with this kind of move, but I suspect that intel doesn't care too much about the enthusiast or end users as apple/amd (I mean that apple market are end user and not server/enterprise like intel).
  - sgjohnson 5y ago
    There are bigger problems with that. Bundling CPU and GPU is not feasible in the present day for high end systems. There are use cases where you need say HBM2 memory. Or you need 4 outputs (most motherboards have just HDMI+VGA). It’s easy for Apple to do, because they have 0 skin in the game in gaming or AI or even GPU compute markets. I don’t think it would make sense for AMD to do it. It would make sense for Intel, to compete in entry level gaming market, but that’s it. IMHO it’s just not feasible if your product is a general purpose GPU, because there’s a lot more to it than just the processing unit.
    - runnerup 5y ago
      The M1 Ultra gets fully half of the performance of a desktop RTX 3090 in both synthetic and real world benchmarks. That’s extremely impressive. Sure, no one has CUDA except NVidia but it looks like Apples GPU architecture really truly does work quite well at this stage. I wouldn’t be shocked to see them catch up to the highest performance GPUs in the next 5 years or so. I mean I also would t be shocked if they didn’t, but it seems like a reasonable possibility at this point. Which is crazy for a SOC, especially one borne from mobile phone architectures. I also feel like M1 rackmount servers could be amazing if Linux ran on them.
      - novok 5y ago
        So the m1 ultra is like a 2070S or a little bit slower than a 3060ti? A ryzen 5950 also has a similar amount of cores, and if most of the power efficiency is coming from being a process node ahead due to special tsmc contracts and covid, its not a durable advantage either because it is not due to technical innovation from apple. The m1 ultra and max basically targeted for video editing as their target market. Same with the m1 max pro with it’s xdr screen to become a great hdr editing laptop. M1 studio similarly is targeted for the video editors that want a mac mini made for them.
        josephg 5y ago
        You won’t take advantage of the GPU cores, but the M1 is also a fantastic chip for compiling code. The core count and memory bandwidth are delightful.
detaro 5y ago
Unified Memory is not something Apple just introduced and nobody else has.
- norman784 5y ago
  I know isn't something new (amd announced it iirc back in 2013 with their apu line) but afaik no one implemented the same way as apple, the gpu and cpu are in the same DIE (I'm not sure if this is the word or how is spelled) but they are not a unit, in apple design both can access all the memory and share between without copying or reserve specific memory from the bios for the gpu.
  - detaro 5y ago
    > both can access all the memory and share between without copying or reserve specific memory from the bios for the gpu. That's pretty much the definition of Unified Memory, i.e. something the other implementations can also do.
    - ricardobeat 5y ago
      Other implementations being mainly mobile Snapdragon SoCs, which don’t directly compete with M1 (yet).
      - detaro 5y ago
        And as already referenced AMD APUs, including the chips for XBox and Playstation. Hence the entire "hope that AMD starts copying" from the original comment doesn't really fit for unified memory.
        awiesenhofer 5y ago
        I do hope these internals and designs "trickle down" into actual builds and products someday. I would love some small beefy desktop workstation similar to the XBox Series X, kinda like a PC take on the old trashcan Mac Pro.
deleted 5y ago
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sgjohnson 5y ago

> unified memory Please dear god no. First, it already exists (shared memory with GPU). Second, implementing it in the same way as Apple basically requires an SoC.

Dobbs 5y ago
Yes unified memory already exists it isn't some newfangled thing. That said Apple is the only modern consumer brand doing it for a Laptop/Desktop. It definitely has some downsides, but it also does have some upsides.
norman784 5y ago
Yes, but you need to setup in the bios how much memory you want to dedicate to the gpu, while apples approach afaik doesn't gpu/cpu can access the same memory, so if you for example want to game and the game requires more memory than the cpu you can get as much as ram you have. I'm on having the cpu/gpu integrated, but more powerful, if apple can do it, then amd/intel can do it too, but I suspect amd will lose their dedicated gpu market, while intel could gain more with this kind of move, but I suspect that intel doesn't care too much about the enthusiast or end users as apple/amd (I mean that apple market are end user and not server/enterprise like intel).
- sgjohnson 5y ago
  There are bigger problems with that. Bundling CPU and GPU is not feasible in the present day for high end systems. There are use cases where you need say HBM2 memory. Or you need 4 outputs (most motherboards have just HDMI+VGA). It’s easy for Apple to do, because they have 0 skin in the game in gaming or AI or even GPU compute markets. I don’t think it would make sense for AMD to do it. It would make sense for Intel, to compete in entry level gaming market, but that’s it. IMHO it’s just not feasible if your product is a general purpose GPU, because there’s a lot more to it than just the processing unit.
  - runnerup 5y ago
    The M1 Ultra gets fully half of the performance of a desktop RTX 3090 in both synthetic and real world benchmarks. That’s extremely impressive. Sure, no one has CUDA except NVidia but it looks like Apples GPU architecture really truly does work quite well at this stage. I wouldn’t be shocked to see them catch up to the highest performance GPUs in the next 5 years or so. I mean I also would t be shocked if they didn’t, but it seems like a reasonable possibility at this point. Which is crazy for a SOC, especially one borne from mobile phone architectures. I also feel like M1 rackmount servers could be amazing if Linux ran on them.
    - novok 5y ago
      So the m1 ultra is like a 2070S or a little bit slower than a 3060ti? A ryzen 5950 also has a similar amount of cores, and if most of the power efficiency is coming from being a process node ahead due to special tsmc contracts and covid, its not a durable advantage either because it is not due to technical innovation from apple. The m1 ultra and max basically targeted for video editing as their target market. Same with the m1 max pro with it’s xdr screen to become a great hdr editing laptop. M1 studio similarly is targeted for the video editors that want a mac mini made for them.
      - josephg 5y ago
        You won’t take advantage of the GPU cores, but the M1 is also a fantastic chip for compiling code. The core count and memory bandwidth are delightful.

detaro 5y ago

Unified Memory is not something Apple just introduced and nobody else has.

norman784 5y ago
I know isn't something new (amd announced it iirc back in 2013 with their apu line) but afaik no one implemented the same way as apple, the gpu and cpu are in the same DIE (I'm not sure if this is the word or how is spelled) but they are not a unit, in apple design both can access all the memory and share between without copying or reserve specific memory from the bios for the gpu.
- detaro 5y ago
  > both can access all the memory and share between without copying or reserve specific memory from the bios for the gpu. That's pretty much the definition of Unified Memory, i.e. something the other implementations can also do.
  - ricardobeat 5y ago
    Other implementations being mainly mobile Snapdragon SoCs, which don’t directly compete with M1 (yet).
    - detaro 5y ago
      And as already referenced AMD APUs, including the chips for XBox and Playstation. Hence the entire "hope that AMD starts copying" from the original comment doesn't really fit for unified memory.
      - awiesenhofer 5y ago
        I do hope these internals and designs "trickle down" into actual builds and products someday. I would love some small beefy desktop workstation similar to the XBox Series X, kinda like a PC take on the old trashcan Mac Pro.

deleted 5y ago

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