3 ms·

> ... And original Agnelli was not really "a scapegoat" but a classic neoliberals ante-litteram You know nothing John Snow He was a member of what we call "bo

> ... And original Agnelli was not really "a scapegoat" but a classic neoliberals ante-litteram You know nothing John Snow He was a member of what we call "borghesia" It has nothing to do with neo-liberism (which is neo liberalism in English), mainly because neo-liberalism is simply a repetition of 19th century free market theories. Just like neoclassicism is not new, is the old being new again. > BTW in the archives there is a historical recipe of a generous donation to the young PNF. This is soooooo boring that it's not even funny anymore. Imagine that right now in our parliament there is a populist party that took 35% of the votes in free elections and another 30% was given to literally a neo-fascist anti-government no-taxation party: Lega per Salvini. Does it mean that 65% of the Italians are populist fascists? Or that that kind of propaganda always works because people are like you: they are so attached to the past that always dream of the best, which is in the past. But the best is enemy of the good. > Again or my English is too bad or you misunderstood You said what you said. Own it. > (average Joe party) was a real political party from '44 to '48, No kidding! Thanks for the primary school history lesson. The point is you are the average Joe's partisan today. How does it feel to be one and not even recognize it? > you have to decouple French people from French élite You have to decouple Italians from their elites then. But Italians never had a Vichy, they were fascists or they fought fascists. They were never in the middle. > is the same of draghi's élite I knew it. Draghi is a professional, one with skills, like it or not he deserve his place. The question you should ask yourself is: why in 2022 you are mad at an old man, while you haven't achieved anything in your life? > Did you remember Portella della Ginestra, Piazza Fontana, Moro, ... ? terrorists being terrorists, fascists being fascists, doesn't mean they won. You have given up, maybe it's you that lost.

kkfx 5y ago
> He was a member of what we call "borghesia" Well, you actually state that, for instance George Soros is a member of the modern bourgeoisie... While to a certain extent, in fuzzy-logic can be true it's actually false, bourgeoisie is "middle class", the Agnelli's were and still are between the topmost rich of the country. > It has nothing to do with neo-liberism (which is neo liberalism in English), mainly because neo-liberalism is simply a repetition of 19th century free market theories. Again that's almost entirely false neoliberals choose not to have fixed positions, they consider money and power the sole thing that govern the world etc, Agnelli was one of them. Like most of fascism financiers and as most of them they keep a careful position to not appear much attached to it. > Imagine that right now in our parliament there is a populist party that took 35% If you know actual electoral law you know that the Parliament no longer represent votes, due to absurdly majority prize and the fact that actual government by-pass the Parliament all days. Actually Italy is governed by a McKinsey puppet regime, not by a democratically elected parliament. PNRR was an act of economic war the local puppet in charge (Draghi) choose exactly to ensure the debt grip on the country and that have only a name: high treason. Italian formal government is actually a coup government against Italian Republic and Constitution. Not differently, actually, then the first PNF government. > Does it mean that 65% of the Italians are populist fascists? Thanks to propaganda in many time of the history yes. Even more than 65%, because as Le Bon and Bernays describe well most people blindly follow leaders without reasoning. > You said what you said. And I've actually tried to tell you politely that you do not understand, I do not know if that's due to my poor English or to a deliberate cherry picking to sustain a political position but that's is... > The point is you are the average Joe's partisan today. It's curious because I never have had nor I have such ideas. > But Italians never had a Vichy Oh, so the infamous Republic of Salò was what? At least Vichy regime have had some good points when it born: at that time France government have committed treason proposing to give France to UK in exchange of help and Philippe Pétain who have seen and confront both UK army and German army rightly choose that in absence of option Germans would be less oppressive for France than UK. He know from WWI that Germans were far more "democratic" than Brits, their officers eat with their troops, they tend to be far more humans each others. Of course since Kaiser things have changed "a bit", but that's is. Salò on contrary have absolutely no justification. Mussolini was paid by UK Crown to switch from being a pacifist and socialist to a interventionist pushing toward war and dictatorship. Also we know that it's highly likely he was killed following UK intelligence orders to avoid he can talk once in Swiss. > You have to decouple Italians from their elites then. And I do. I know well that WWII partisans was a little minority and even counting last-minutes GAP and SAP they were almost just few people mostly concentrated in the north-west of the country. I know many act of treason inside Resistenza starting from the exclusion of CLN Alta Italia proposal to keep arms and positions telling "allies" they can choose to respect Italian sovereignty or face a double-enemy front they clearly can't sustain at macro level to episodes at micro-levels like the killing of Aldo Gastaldi (Bisagno) formally "an accident", another one. > Draghi is a professional, one with skills, like it or not he deserve his place. Professional of what? Thief? Can you try to depict what Draghi government do for Italy? Actually I only have a LONG list of crimes. here you have some examples https://paste2.org/psDgVcBN https://paste2.org/psDgVcBN and the best is https://youtu.be/6N7dgX8EJ8Y https://youtu.be/6N7dgX8EJ8Y where he clearly say he do not rule by Italian voters desire but by a private company from Luxembourg who handle the PNRR (formerly MES) try to give me a SOLE and UNIQUE example of something good he did for the country. > You have given up, maybe it's you that lost. Yes, I give up, I choose to emigrate because my country does not represent anymore my ideals. I give up because there is no room for a change so far. My grandparents if they were still alive they would still be in the mountains to fight the same enemy they fail to really defeat, thanks to a large slice of population that actually behave like Le Bon have described in Psychologie des foules, the favorite book of mussolini. Since there is no point in fight a lost war I give up. I'll choose another country and do my best to wait in wealthy shape until people's realize in a sufficient mass again why we ALL need Democracy. And the hardest part for me is understanding how Democracy can born, what's the quid that make it happen, because so far while I'm definitively far from right-ish position I think I understand eugenics and certain political considerations of the masses as a flock of sheep to be governed in the same way... It hurt me much, but I understand such positions seeing the actual involution in just 50+ years.

kkfx 5y ago

> He was a member of what we call "borghesia" Well, you actually state that, for instance George Soros is a member of the modern bourgeoisie... While to a certain extent, in fuzzy-logic can be true it's actually false, bourgeoisie is "middle class", the Agnelli's were and still are between the topmost rich of the country. > It has nothing to do with neo-liberism (which is neo liberalism in English), mainly because neo-liberalism is simply a repetition of 19th century free market theories. Again that's almost entirely false neoliberals choose not to have fixed positions, they consider money and power the sole thing that govern the world etc, Agnelli was one of them. Like most of fascism financiers and as most of them they keep a careful position to not appear much attached to it. > Imagine that right now in our parliament there is a populist party that took 35% If you know actual electoral law you know that the Parliament no longer represent votes, due to absurdly majority prize and the fact that actual government by-pass the Parliament all days. Actually Italy is governed by a McKinsey puppet regime, not by a democratically elected parliament. PNRR was an act of economic war the local puppet in charge (Draghi) choose exactly to ensure the debt grip on the country and that have only a name: high treason. Italian formal government is actually a coup government against Italian Republic and Constitution. Not differently, actually, then the first PNF government. > Does it mean that 65% of the Italians are populist fascists? Thanks to propaganda in many time of the history yes. Even more than 65%, because as Le Bon and Bernays describe well most people blindly follow leaders without reasoning. > You said what you said. And I've actually tried to tell you politely that you do not understand, I do not know if that's due to my poor English or to a deliberate cherry picking to sustain a political position but that's is... > The point is you are the average Joe's partisan today. It's curious because I never have had nor I have such ideas. > But Italians never had a Vichy Oh, so the infamous Republic of Salò was what? At least Vichy regime have had some good points when it born: at that time France government have committed treason proposing to give France to UK in exchange of help and Philippe Pétain who have seen and confront both UK army and German army rightly choose that in absence of option Germans would be less oppressive for France than UK. He know from WWI that Germans were far more "democratic" than Brits, their officers eat with their troops, they tend to be far more humans each others. Of course since Kaiser things have changed "a bit", but that's is. Salò on contrary have absolutely no justification. Mussolini was paid by UK Crown to switch from being a pacifist and socialist to a interventionist pushing toward war and dictatorship. Also we know that it's highly likely he was killed following UK intelligence orders to avoid he can talk once in Swiss. > You have to decouple Italians from their elites then. And I do. I know well that WWII partisans was a little minority and even counting last-minutes GAP and SAP they were almost just few people mostly concentrated in the north-west of the country. I know many act of treason inside Resistenza starting from the exclusion of CLN Alta Italia proposal to keep arms and positions telling "allies" they can choose to respect Italian sovereignty or face a double-enemy front they clearly can't sustain at macro level to episodes at micro-levels like the killing of Aldo Gastaldi (Bisagno) formally "an accident", another one. > Draghi is a professional, one with skills, like it or not he deserve his place. Professional of what? Thief? Can you try to depict what Draghi government do for Italy? Actually I only have a LONG list of crimes. here you have some examples https://paste2.org/psDgVcBN https://paste2.org/psDgVcBN and the best is https://youtu.be/6N7dgX8EJ8Y https://youtu.be/6N7dgX8EJ8Y where he clearly say he do not rule by Italian voters desire but by a private company from Luxembourg who handle the PNRR (formerly MES) try to give me a SOLE and UNIQUE example of something good he did for the country. > You have given up, maybe it's you that lost. Yes, I give up, I choose to emigrate because my country does not represent anymore my ideals. I give up because there is no room for a change so far. My grandparents if they were still alive they would still be in the mountains to fight the same enemy they fail to really defeat, thanks to a large slice of population that actually behave like Le Bon have described in Psychologie des foules, the favorite book of mussolini. Since there is no point in fight a lost war I give up. I'll choose another country and do my best to wait in wealthy shape until people's realize in a sufficient mass again why we ALL need Democracy. And the hardest part for me is understanding how Democracy can born, what's the quid that make it happen, because so far while I'm definitively far from right-ish position I think I understand eugenics and certain political considerations of the masses as a flock of sheep to be governed in the same way... It hurt me much, but I understand such positions seeing the actual involution in just 50+ years.