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> history is history: Stalin actually helped the nazis Yes, history is history: stalin was a dictator, probably the murderer of Lenin (witch was a dictator too

by kkfx 5y ago

> history is history: Stalin actually helped the nazis Yes, history is history: stalin was a dictator, probably the murderer of Lenin (witch was a dictator too, but at least with far less blood in his hands) BUT stalin help the nazi only to protect Soviet Union, because he know he can't sustain a war having just emerged from a nth turn of civil wars AND he understand the the rest of the west will not help him. He first propose to stop hitler but UK say "no, just wait, he only invade a bit of nearby countries for good reasons", they keep waiting, they send diplomats without any decision power to Russia etc. hitler on contrary have sent a plenipotentiary and sign a clear agreement. That's is. Just like today China: Russian was no friends of Germans like we are no friends of China but we need a reliable partner, at that time the nazi was ones, these days China is one. Oh, BTW the propaganda stating Russian bear rape a democratic country can't be swallowed by anyone who just read news: we all know that Ukrainian gov was as "democratic" as Xi or Putin and is a puppet regime planted by the west, the west who actually have financed, formed and armed local nazis to keep up the eastward expansion of NATO keeping the EU away from a partnership with Russia. At that point for us EU Citizens our own government are responsible for high treason just because they made choices for USA and UK interests against our own interests and they have financed and armed as well nazis, witch is a crime in most EU after WWII... There is no tribalism, it's just a game of interest, BUT one thing is the interest of their own country another is the interest of a foreign one.

peoplefromibiza 5y ago
> BUT stalin help the nazi only to protect Soviet Union At least he fought them and won. What excuses have French for Vichy "Republic"? > the west who actually have financed, formed and armed local nazis to keep up the eastward expansion of NATO I've never been in favor of the expansion to the east of EU, imagine what I think of NATO expansion... And not because I don't like people from east Europe, but because we all know too well what happens when you finance "freedom fighters" against your enemy: they become the Saddam Husseins, the Bin Ladens, the contras and the Talibans. We should stop it.
- kkfx 5y ago
  > What excuses have French for Vichy "Republic"? No "excuse", Philippe Pétain have simply understood that war for France was lost and he choose the Germans because they were less oppressive than the Brits the France gov. choose. Actually at first he was right. He imagin Germans from WWI not nazis, of course, but history tell a thing: German nazis was no more "nazi" than neoliberals who win them. Oh and I say that from a socialist point of view, read that last sentence three time. A thing I learn from the history is that some regimes start with good ideas, but they end very badly, some other prefer "less good" ideas and sometimes they land less badly. What I still miss is how Democracy can born. And that's a big issue for me...
csee 5y ago
> we all know that Ukrainian gov was as "democratic" as Xi or Putin and is a puppet regime planted by the west What? Putin assassinates and jails many of his critics and journalists, holds fraudulent elections, maintains strict control of the press in peacetime, places barriers to protest that in effect make it difficult to impossible, and has no respect for term limits. He's an autocrat turning into a despot. How in any way does that compare to Ukraine? Ukraine's leader wasn't that popular until the invasion but he still won an election in a landslide.
- kkfx 5y ago
  Actual Ukrainian gov. since at least 2014 coup commit a slow genocide on it's own Russian-speaking part of population, around 30% or so. Just now they decide to ban all other parties and force all broadcasts to spread just government propaganda. At least putin have killed single individuals who are against him, nothing new under the Sun, but so far he do not commit any genocide against it's own people. So fat he finance some nazis, and mercenaries of similar kind (Wagner), but fur less than NATO-armed, trained and financed Azov, Pravy Sektor, C14 et al. and for the mercenaries nothing different than Blackwater and co. In purely political criminality terms putin is a criminal like Biden, Trump or Jonson, with a difference: so far he have killed FAR less then them around the world. Try to be honest, looking at raw news behind propaganda.
  - csee 5y ago
    > 2014 coup The 2014 revolution (not coup in the classic sense) followed by the recent non-rigged (unlike in Russia) democratic election in which the current leader was elected in a landslide of popular support. > commit a slow genocide on it's own Russian-speaking part of population, around 30% or so Source? I am aware of one warcrime most likely committed by Ukraine-aligned troops (potentially Azov) in the Donbas that were pointed out by Human Rights Watch. They killed like 15 civilians in criminal shelling. Haven't seen evidence that would amount towards the claim of genocide, which is a high bar. > Just now they decide to ban all other parties That's false. They didn't ban all other parties. They banned 11 minority parties that constituted about 10% of the seats which had ties to the country that is currently invading them. Some far-right ones (which get like 2% of the vote) and mostly far-left ones. If Russia hadn't invaded, guess what, this wouldn't have happened. > force all broadcasts to spread just government propaganda. You mean forced to spread government information? That's correct. They are being invaded by Russia and so they invoked these kind of martial law measures which would be concerning in any other context. The root cause of martial law in Ukraine is the Russian invasion. If you have a problem with martial law in Ukraine, then blame the country that is invading Ukraine. > At least putin have killed single individuals who are against him, nothing new under the Sun Actually, it's not normal to kill domestic political opponents and journalists. > So fat he finance some nazis, and mercenaries of similar kind (Wagner), but fur less than NATO-armed, trained and financed Azov, Pravy Sektor, C14 et al. and for the mercenaries nothing different than Blackwater and co. The head of Wagner is an actual Nazi, with SS tattoos on his neck. Putin sent this literal Nazi's henchmen into Ukraine under the guise of 'denazification'. I will admit that the Nazis in Azov are a huge problem, but if you were a small country that had to defend against Russian aggression, you can't afford to pick and choose who's going to help defend your country. Empirical proof: Azov is proving hugely useful in delaying the Russian invasion in Mariupol. If they have kicked Azov out, Mariupol may have already fallen. Again - the root problem here is Russian aggression. If Russia wasn't a threat, they wouldn't have to resort to desperate measures like this. If you don't like Azov, then blame Russia, because without Russia, Ukraine wouldn't have any need of Azov. > In purely political criminality terms putin is a criminal like Biden, Trump or Jonson No. Biden et al are not ultranationalist despots who murder their political opponents, rig elections, ban free speech, and invade democracies.

by kkfx 5y ago

peoplefromibiza 5y ago

> BUT stalin help the nazi only to protect Soviet Union At least he fought them and won. What excuses have French for Vichy "Republic"? > the west who actually have financed, formed and armed local nazis to keep up the eastward expansion of NATO I've never been in favor of the expansion to the east of EU, imagine what I think of NATO expansion... And not because I don't like people from east Europe, but because we all know too well what happens when you finance "freedom fighters" against your enemy: they become the Saddam Husseins, the Bin Ladens, the contras and the Talibans. We should stop it.

kkfx 5y ago
> What excuses have French for Vichy "Republic"? No "excuse", Philippe Pétain have simply understood that war for France was lost and he choose the Germans because they were less oppressive than the Brits the France gov. choose. Actually at first he was right. He imagin Germans from WWI not nazis, of course, but history tell a thing: German nazis was no more "nazi" than neoliberals who win them. Oh and I say that from a socialist point of view, read that last sentence three time. A thing I learn from the history is that some regimes start with good ideas, but they end very badly, some other prefer "less good" ideas and sometimes they land less badly. What I still miss is how Democracy can born. And that's a big issue for me...

csee 5y ago

> we all know that Ukrainian gov was as "democratic" as Xi or Putin and is a puppet regime planted by the west What? Putin assassinates and jails many of his critics and journalists, holds fraudulent elections, maintains strict control of the press in peacetime, places barriers to protest that in effect make it difficult to impossible, and has no respect for term limits. He's an autocrat turning into a despot. How in any way does that compare to Ukraine? Ukraine's leader wasn't that popular until the invasion but he still won an election in a landslide.

kkfx 5y ago
Actual Ukrainian gov. since at least 2014 coup commit a slow genocide on it's own Russian-speaking part of population, around 30% or so. Just now they decide to ban all other parties and force all broadcasts to spread just government propaganda. At least putin have killed single individuals who are against him, nothing new under the Sun, but so far he do not commit any genocide against it's own people. So fat he finance some nazis, and mercenaries of similar kind (Wagner), but fur less than NATO-armed, trained and financed Azov, Pravy Sektor, C14 et al. and for the mercenaries nothing different than Blackwater and co. In purely political criminality terms putin is a criminal like Biden, Trump or Jonson, with a difference: so far he have killed FAR less then them around the world. Try to be honest, looking at raw news behind propaganda.
- csee 5y ago
  > 2014 coup The 2014 revolution (not coup in the classic sense) followed by the recent non-rigged (unlike in Russia) democratic election in which the current leader was elected in a landslide of popular support. > commit a slow genocide on it's own Russian-speaking part of population, around 30% or so Source? I am aware of one warcrime most likely committed by Ukraine-aligned troops (potentially Azov) in the Donbas that were pointed out by Human Rights Watch. They killed like 15 civilians in criminal shelling. Haven't seen evidence that would amount towards the claim of genocide, which is a high bar. > Just now they decide to ban all other parties That's false. They didn't ban all other parties. They banned 11 minority parties that constituted about 10% of the seats which had ties to the country that is currently invading them. Some far-right ones (which get like 2% of the vote) and mostly far-left ones. If Russia hadn't invaded, guess what, this wouldn't have happened. > force all broadcasts to spread just government propaganda. You mean forced to spread government information? That's correct. They are being invaded by Russia and so they invoked these kind of martial law measures which would be concerning in any other context. The root cause of martial law in Ukraine is the Russian invasion. If you have a problem with martial law in Ukraine, then blame the country that is invading Ukraine. > At least putin have killed single individuals who are against him, nothing new under the Sun Actually, it's not normal to kill domestic political opponents and journalists. > So fat he finance some nazis, and mercenaries of similar kind (Wagner), but fur less than NATO-armed, trained and financed Azov, Pravy Sektor, C14 et al. and for the mercenaries nothing different than Blackwater and co. The head of Wagner is an actual Nazi, with SS tattoos on his neck. Putin sent this literal Nazi's henchmen into Ukraine under the guise of 'denazification'. I will admit that the Nazis in Azov are a huge problem, but if you were a small country that had to defend against Russian aggression, you can't afford to pick and choose who's going to help defend your country. Empirical proof: Azov is proving hugely useful in delaying the Russian invasion in Mariupol. If they have kicked Azov out, Mariupol may have already fallen. Again - the root problem here is Russian aggression. If Russia wasn't a threat, they wouldn't have to resort to desperate measures like this. If you don't like Azov, then blame Russia, because without Russia, Ukraine wouldn't have any need of Azov. > In purely political criminality terms putin is a criminal like Biden, Trump or Jonson No. Biden et al are not ultranationalist despots who murder their political opponents, rig elections, ban free speech, and invade democracies.