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Just be ethical about it. If you are a tourist in the global south, and you negotiate down the price of some craft/souvenir/whatever you are buying on the side

• ge96 5y ago
  Aren't they marked up if they know you're a foreigner.
  • jamjamjamjamjam 5y ago
    I have to buy many online goods in USD with my devalued currency. Isn’t that the same?
    • 7steps2much 5y ago
      Not really. With these souvenir shops etc they have a baseline price X for locals and then a price Y for tourists where the price Y is deliberately higher. In the case of online goods they have a price X in USD because that is the currency the seller has / uses. They sell it to everyone at that price, they don't upcharge people who have to convert currencies. Now, it is very well possible that those people will have to pay quite a lot for it, but that's because they buy from a seller based in a region that's financially better off and as such has higher prices in general, not because the seller tries to get as much as possible out of them.
      • pc86 5y ago
        They sell it to USD to everyone, but price discrimination is real and people absolutely pay widely different amounts for the same physical (and digital) products online all the time. Purchaser's country can definitely be taken into account.
  • mintone 5y ago
    I used to have this mindset... but then I realised that even if they charge e.g. $25 to a local and $50 to me, I'm not personally worse off. There is little benefit to me in bargaining my way down to $25 - yeah they might think they've conned me, but (as long as it's not factory made junk) I'm happy to pay $50 for something that I like, even if I could negotiate it down to $25. The $25 saved simply doesn't mean that much to me in the grand scheme of things, but most likely does to them.
    • emerged 5y ago
      If you don’t negotiate when negotiating is the norm, seems like you might find yourself surrounded by venders pretty quickly
• esperent 5y ago
  If you're a tourist in many developing countries you're gonna get charged 200 - 500% of the price a local would pay anyway, so haggle away. Whatever you end up paying is almost certainly going to be way over the going rate, especially in a tourist area. If you're outside the tourist area then things might be different and people are more chill, likely to treat you as a customer instead of a mark. Also depends on the country of course. And should go without saying to treat the people you're haggling with with respect and kindness - if they don't reciprocate then bring your business elsewhere. Don't reward shitty behavior just because someone is poor. Source: I've lived in a developing country for long enough to work out how much things actually cost.
  • diegoperini 5y ago
    In places where tourism season only lasts for a few months, cost of living for the off-season is included in that 200-500% inflation.
    • bobthechef 5y ago
      The dealer will not charge less than he can afford. He’s not being coerced into beggary. There is clearly a market. And tourists will still overpay as they always do. It’s not the tourist’s job to worry about the knick knack dealer’s finances. That’s patronizing, presumptuous, and shows a lack of boundaries. Unless you’re dealing with a beggar where a transaction may be merely symbolic, I don’t even see a legitimate opportunity for charity here. Even then, you could still contribute to entrenching poverty by encouraging a tourist culture that inculcates dependence on charity. Authentic charity and generosity are governed by reason, not sentiment.
    • ivanche 5y ago
      So the locals can’t work on something else in the off season?
      • cassianoleal 5y ago
        That is, unfortunately, correct in many instances. Jobs are not an infinite resource.
• refurb 5y ago
  Disagree. Just negotiate. As a foreigner you're going to pay a premium anyways no matter how hard you negotiate. If you don't negotiate, that just becomes the "price you can get from foreigners", so the starting point gets jacked up. Soon enough it becomes the place tourists avoid.
• janekm 5y ago
  I can't help sharing one of my favourite haggling anecdotes here. I was in a jewellery market in Mexico City, waiting for a friend to return from the toilets, so I spent some time looking over the goods of a stall and looking at one silver bracelet. The stall keeper noticed and told me it was (not the actual prices) 500 pesos. I tell him I'm not really interested. He says 250, I tell him I'm still not interested. 150, still not interested. He says he needs to "check with his boss" and walks off around the corner (there may or may not have been a boss) and comes back with 100 pesos. At this point I figure, well it'll make a nice present for someone and accept... I don't think he lost out as I legitimately had no interest in buying before he haggled himself down that low, but it was an interesting lesson in how far haggling can go in some circumstances...
  • Cthulhu_ 5y ago
    I'm convinced that these are the kind of profit margins on products in "the west" as well, but without the haggling.
    • chris_overseas 5y ago
      I guess you're referring to items like these? https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MX572ZM/A/apple-mac-pro-wheels-kit https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MX572ZM/A/apple-mac-pr...
      • account42 5y ago
        "Financing Available" for a set of wheels, incredible.
        • warrenm 5y ago
          Why not? Yokohama does it :P
  • muzani 5y ago
    This is what a haggling culture actually looks like. There's an assumption in this thread that in all "non-Western" cultures, haggling is the norm. But I think it's important for the seller to imply consent first.
• technothrasher 5y ago
  I tried the "just pay the price they're asking for their bobble, it's inconsequential to me anyway" at a little market in Botswana. It caused a big fight with a few vendors because they were sure the one I randomly chose had some scheme going to get me to just give them money since I didn't haggle. After that disaster, it became clear that most of those tourist markets expect you to haggle.
  • rubyfan 5y ago
    I had the same experience in a European country. I was visiting family and they intervened on my behalf luckily.
    • dotancohen 5y ago
      Romania? If not I'd love to know where.
      • rubyfan 5y ago
        Spain actually
        • dotancohen 5y ago
          Spain was my third-place guess, just behind Italy. ))
      • bogdanu 5y ago
        As a romanian this makes me curious why you thought is Romania, haha.
        • dotancohen 5y ago
          Correct me if I'm mistaken, but Romanians have a very strong haggling tradition. I've personally only been two weeks in Romania, but even in other European countries the Romanian vendors would recognize my wife as Romanian and begin haggling with her in Romanian.
• bobthechef 5y ago
  There is some confusion here. There is no moral obligation of the sort that you are claiming . Speak to a tour guide in these countries and he will tell you that many tourists from western countries that don’t have a culture of bargaining vastly overpay for many things that are marked up precisely because the locals know tourists don’t know any better. Even if they did, they would still make a profit. People in the “global south” aren’t stupid. They are much better at playing the bargaining game than westerners. You are no match for their hustling. They will tell you when they cannot go any lower and will not sell for less than that amount. Even that amount is bound to make them a nice profit. It’s not like you’re fleecing them or coercing them into loss. They will not sell below what they can afford. Why would they? If you want to be generous, be generous, but even generosity can be misguided and foolish, even condescending in its presuppositions (westerners often have patronizing views of the “third world”). Charity has its place. (Look at the effects of mitumba in Africa or free rice in Haiti for example of misplaced charity.) Ethically speaking, justice does not bind us to refrain from bargaining because there is nothing unjust about it.
  • dotancohen 5y ago
    > Look at the effects of mitumba in Africa or free rice in Haiti for example of misplaced charity. What are the problems with mitumba in Africa or free rice in Haiti? I'm not American so maybe these are cultural references that I'm not familiar with.
    • jtc331 5y ago
      I’m not familiar with the details of these specific examples, but I imagine it’s parallel to the problems created by Toms giving away shoes in Africa that they’ve shipped in. They actually do a lot of harm because they’ve displaced local economy —- from shoe makers to the sources of material for the shoes etc. In an effort to be charitable they’ve actually destroyed livelihoods and taken food off of people’s tables. If they really wanted to do charitable good they could employ the shoe makers and use local raw materials for those shoes.
• bin_bash 5y ago
  What an odd example, those cultures people expect haggling and they will dramatically increase the starting price if you're a Westerner. You could be asked to pay 10x what they'd be willing to sell it for. You absolutely should haggle if for no other reason than to experience their culture a bit deeper. It's far from being rude or inconsiderate—especially not "unethical".
  • yosamino 5y ago
    > they will dramatically increase the starting price if you're a Westerner. The point is that due to the large different in wealth, the increase is "dramatic" for them, but probably neglible for you. Why not make someone's life a tiny bit better by not pressuring some some small time vendor in a country with less than a third of the GDP per capita than yours into giving up their share of the wealth that tourism is supposed to bring. Otherwise: what is the point of tourism for a host country? Imagine making 80k/year, paying $100/night for the hotel you are now stepping out of and then haggling with someone who maybe makes 10k/year over the price of a $30 hat that you would pay $59.99 for if you were to buy it in the US and that takes $5 to produce. I personally don't just find it rude, I find it entitled. Negotiating prices within "those cultures" make sense when the playing field is somewhat level. Don't exoticize and take advantage of it. > You absolutely should haggle if for no other reason than to experience their culture a bit deeper. That is just offensive. Go to a nice restaurant, enjoy their food, see a museum, enjoy the sights. Haggling is not at the core of anyone's culture. Imagine a Thai person going to Olive Garden for the immersively american experience of tipping their waiters - and even that makes the tinies bit of sense, because at least in that transaction money flows in the right direction.
    • bin_bash 5y ago
      I always make a large donation to a credible non-profit or two after visiting a third-world country that pales in comparison to the amount I would've paid to street vendors ripping me off. That puts my money to far better use. BTW my wife is from a very poor country and she would laugh at anyones face for paying full price to a vendor. It doesn't make you "ethical" it makes you stupid in her mind.
• antattack 5y ago
  If you pay too much you spoil it for everyone. Vendadores don't work for themselves so no matter how much money you give them - they have to stand in the sun.
• giantg2 5y ago
  Some cultures expect you to haggle and to not would be an insult.
  • kingofpandora 5y ago
    An oft-repeated aphorism by travelling westerners so they can justify negotiating over $1, but I have yet to actually come across someone who would be genuinely offended by not haggling.
    • giantg2 5y ago
      It's not all cultures, only some. Others in this thread have given first hand accounts of how not haggling has caused trouble.
      • kingofpandora 5y ago
        Someone said that not haggling caused the neighbouring vendors to be upset (presumably jealous at not hitting the jackpot). Can you point me to the cultures where not haggling caused offense?
• twomoonsbysurf 5y ago
• hogrider 5y ago
  Living off turists is the most negative value thibg you can do. They spun a bracelet in 5 minutes and want a weeks wages for it. It's always a scam and you should never support it, food and lodging is enough spending as it is.