4 ms·

I don't think even the LTSC edition avoids the UX problems discussed here. All the LTSC does is freeze the features Windows had at release and give you security

I don't think even the LTSC edition avoids the UX problems discussed here. All the LTSC does is freeze the features Windows had at release and give you security updates. You're still stuck with whatever was there at launch. Suggesting switching to an entirely different OS to someone who's complaining that their habitual OS no longer behaves as it used to isn't very useful. >I'm not really sure what to make of this as it seems people prefer to complain as if they were hostages to the whims of others. I buy my computers with Linux pre-installed on supported machines. You don't understand because you're failing to empathize with what people are saying, because it's not a problem you personally experience. Let's see if this works: suppose you find a shoe manufacturer that makes these really neat shoes that you love. You love them so much that every time they wear out, you buy the next model from that manufacturer. Each model is slightly different from the last, but you like all of them better than the competition. As you've gotten used to them, you've started to develop certain habits with these shoes, such as a technique to tie the laces that makes you do it very fast. But over time, the manufacturer has started to change the way it makes the shoes, such that they're not as comfortable as they used to be, or some of your habits no longer work with them. Now, you don't want to buy from a different manufacturer. At this point your feet are accustomed to the way these shoes fit, and other shoes feel completely different, even if in some ways they're objectively better. You don't want shoes from a different brand, you want the shoes this one used to make, which used to be so much better than this. TL;DR: Something can be worse than it used to be, and still be better than the alternatives.

emptysongglass 5y ago
> You don't understand because you're failing to empathize with what people are saying, because it's not a problem you personally experience. To be clear I support my wife's LTSC install and use Windows 11 with WSL and WSLg for work. > I don't think even the LTSC edition avoids the UX problems discussed here. I think it does but please highlight which problems it doesnt avoid. > suppose you find a shoe manufacturer that makes these really neat shoes that you love. Do they respect me as a user? What are their capital incentives? If not aligned with mine why do I love them? Can I change my purchasing habits so their capital incentives align? If not, I should probably do something less rage-inducing for my own health.
- deadbeeves 5y ago
  >I think it does but please highlight which problems it doesnt avoid. I've never used it, I was guessing based on my understanding of what LTSC is. >Do they respect me as a user? What are their capital incentives? If not aligned with mine why do I love them? The thing you love is the shoes, not the shoes' manufacturer. >Can I change my purchasing habits so their capital incentives align? Can you, as in, is it possible for you at a reasonable cost? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on the user. "Would you?" is the real question. If we're assuming that your shoes fit you best, why would you switch to a different brand that would fit you worse? Are you implying that the natural tendency of a product is to get worse until it's no better than its competitors?
  - emptysongglass 5y ago
    > Are you implying that the natural tendency of a product is to get worse until it's no better than its competitors? Yes! And I'll get a little philosophical here but if we really take an eagle's eye view on the source of this problem it's that capitalism insists on growth to keep the machine of prosperity running. On a microcosmic scale you can see this at work inside companies, which must pursue new growth streams as existing markets become saturated. With single digit growth in OS licenses, Microsoft pursues cloud/Office/SaaS to continue offering investors big returns. This leads to the inevitable downward spiral of the quality of former core products and desperate moves to monetize essentially a delivery vehicle to sell SaaS products. Stepping outside Microsoft for a moment and looking at Apple we can already see this emergent behavior in Apple's pivot to services and the marketing of those services inside its SaaS/subscription delivery vehicles, such as iCloud+, Apple TV, Arcade etc. Returning to Microsoft, this is why we see Windows licenses now being sold basically for free and Microsoft removing virtually all burdens to a user running an unlicensed OS. It no longer matters to their new core business. Given this duopoly of OSes with a new service fetish it behooves a user of these OSes to either pay so much money to Microsoft for respectful OS editions they can't help but notice (volume licensing LTSC) or explore alternatives that aren't beholden to these vicious imperatives.
    - deadbeeves 5y ago

emptysongglass 5y ago

> You don't understand because you're failing to empathize with what people are saying, because it's not a problem you personally experience. To be clear I support my wife's LTSC install and use Windows 11 with WSL and WSLg for work. > I don't think even the LTSC edition avoids the UX problems discussed here. I think it does but please highlight which problems it doesnt avoid. > suppose you find a shoe manufacturer that makes these really neat shoes that you love. Do they respect me as a user? What are their capital incentives? If not aligned with mine why do I love them? Can I change my purchasing habits so their capital incentives align? If not, I should probably do something less rage-inducing for my own health.

deadbeeves 5y ago
>I think it does but please highlight which problems it doesnt avoid. I've never used it, I was guessing based on my understanding of what LTSC is. >Do they respect me as a user? What are their capital incentives? If not aligned with mine why do I love them? The thing you love is the shoes, not the shoes' manufacturer. >Can I change my purchasing habits so their capital incentives align? Can you, as in, is it possible for you at a reasonable cost? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on the user. "Would you?" is the real question. If we're assuming that your shoes fit you best, why would you switch to a different brand that would fit you worse? Are you implying that the natural tendency of a product is to get worse until it's no better than its competitors?
- emptysongglass 5y ago
  > Are you implying that the natural tendency of a product is to get worse until it's no better than its competitors? Yes! And I'll get a little philosophical here but if we really take an eagle's eye view on the source of this problem it's that capitalism insists on growth to keep the machine of prosperity running. On a microcosmic scale you can see this at work inside companies, which must pursue new growth streams as existing markets become saturated. With single digit growth in OS licenses, Microsoft pursues cloud/Office/SaaS to continue offering investors big returns. This leads to the inevitable downward spiral of the quality of former core products and desperate moves to monetize essentially a delivery vehicle to sell SaaS products. Stepping outside Microsoft for a moment and looking at Apple we can already see this emergent behavior in Apple's pivot to services and the marketing of those services inside its SaaS/subscription delivery vehicles, such as iCloud+, Apple TV, Arcade etc. Returning to Microsoft, this is why we see Windows licenses now being sold basically for free and Microsoft removing virtually all burdens to a user running an unlicensed OS. It no longer matters to their new core business. Given this duopoly of OSes with a new service fetish it behooves a user of these OSes to either pay so much money to Microsoft for respectful OS editions they can't help but notice (volume licensing LTSC) or explore alternatives that aren't beholden to these vicious imperatives.
  - deadbeeves 5y ago