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> if it turns out that screen media is indeed detrimental to the development of children then we're basically ensuring that the socioeconomic divide is going to

by Jare 5y ago

> if it turns out that screen media is indeed detrimental to the development of children then we're basically ensuring that the socioeconomic divide is going to turn into a chasm Depends on what's the alternative for all that screen time. If these parents could substitute screen time with healthy family / healthy / educational activity, then sure, media time is making things worse. I'm pretty convinced that the extra presence of screen time at the lower socioeconomic scale is a consequence of parents' lack of time, education and resources to provide that kind of alternative. So, the actual alternatives to screen time might likely be worse (inattention, boredom, early exposure to adult world, etc).

somenameforme 5y ago
You're assuming things like boredom are not only bad, but worse than endless entertainment. I'd claim that necessity is to invention as boredom is to creativity.
- nonrandomstring 5y ago
  > necessity is to invention as boredom is to creativity. Well said. We have a no B-word rule in our house. "Boredom" is a cultural malaise. Neither my partner nor I ever use the word. Until age 5 my kid never had the concept of "being bored". But after starting school she started coming home, huffing and shrugging like a teenager and saying "that's boring!". She gets sent to her room to "find something interesting to think about", and 30 seconds later she's happily playing a dolls game or shooting her bow and arrows at the wardrobe. To take a Wittgensteinian approach - words "stand in" as templates for as yet unformed concepts - young children use words with no understanding of their adult meaning, so they'll say, "that's gay", or "that's spazzy", (or whatever word they picked up in the playground) which means something like "I want be in control, and so I reject whatever it is you think I want". In 2022 "boring" is the worst accusation that can be levelled against anything. It's adults who create and propagate the conceit of "boredom". How could anybody actually be bored in this world, with all the marvels and freedom we have?! What adults mean is something different; "Don't leave me alone with myself, exposed to the existential chasm in my soul, and my abject learned helplessness".
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    > What adults mean is something different; "Don't leave me alone with myself, exposed to the existential chasm in my soul, and my abject learned helplessness". I've come to accept and adopt my late father's idea about the purpose of portable music players, which he formulated shortly after the Sony Walkman had got competition from other brands of cassette players, and which now, after an (in retrospect rather short) interlude of dedicated MP3 players, applies to the music player apps in smartphones: That's why everybody[1] nowadays walks around constantly marinating their brains in a drizzle of background music[2]: To drown out their own thoughts -- or to cover the lack thereof. ___ [1]: i.e. more or less "everybody", at the time of writing, under the age of... Idunno, ~50? [2]: Or muzak, as Dad may have put it.
- Jare 5y ago
  > I'd claim that necessity is to invention as boredom is to creativity. This is a good point, but I would say that while one is fairly necessary for the other, it is far from sufficient. In the kind of context we were describing, it's certainly possible for people to pursue creative endeavors, but in most cases not in a way that opens up many avenues to break out of that environment.
nonrandomstring 5y ago
> > we're basically ensuring that the socioeconomic divide is going to turn into a chasm Yes I think that positive feedback cycle is already well established. > Depends on what's the alternative for all that screen time. I'm pretty convinced that the extra presence of screen time at the lower socioeconomic scale is a consequence of parents' lack of time, What is "lack of time"? A careless reader would assume you meant they are busy working [1]. No. The parents are on their phones. From birth all these kids see is mum's face lit from below with a blue light. To start with, the kids try to break through neglect and inattention by calling "mum" mum!" and trying ever more naughty things to get attention. Eventually they are given a phone of their own (aged 2 is the youngest I have seen) as a pacifier. The parents give their kids the same digital drugs to be free of their "disruption" so they can indulge their own addictions. > So, the actual alternatives to screen time might likely be worse .... early exposure to adult world I know what you meant (sex, violence, alcohol...), but the stark reality is that the "adult world" is staring into a 6 inch screen for 12 hours. Adults don't have time for anything else nowadays. These pacifiers work for all ages. It's natural that children want to copy what they see adults doing. [1] It's actually when the parents are working that these digital orphans get better childcare, as they're usually at school or with an adult caregiver who has them in mind.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  > What is "lack of time"? A careless reader would assume you meant they are busy working [1]. No. The parents are on their phones. From birth all these kids see is mum's face lit from below with a blue light. Sure, that may exist. But your generalisation is so sweeping as to be in effect just a slur against the poor. > I know what you meant (sex, violence, alcohol...), but the stark reality is that the "adult world" is staring into a 6 inch screen for 12 hours. Adults don't have time for anything else nowadays. These pacifiers work for all ages. Ah, OK, so it's a slur against everybody? I suppose that's better... Somehow. Or are you still talking mainly about the less-well-off? Then my point above remains.

by Jare 5y ago

somenameforme 5y ago

You're assuming things like boredom are not only bad, but worse than endless entertainment. I'd claim that necessity is to invention as boredom is to creativity.

nonrandomstring 5y ago
> necessity is to invention as boredom is to creativity. Well said. We have a no B-word rule in our house. "Boredom" is a cultural malaise. Neither my partner nor I ever use the word. Until age 5 my kid never had the concept of "being bored". But after starting school she started coming home, huffing and shrugging like a teenager and saying "that's boring!". She gets sent to her room to "find something interesting to think about", and 30 seconds later she's happily playing a dolls game or shooting her bow and arrows at the wardrobe. To take a Wittgensteinian approach - words "stand in" as templates for as yet unformed concepts - young children use words with no understanding of their adult meaning, so they'll say, "that's gay", or "that's spazzy", (or whatever word they picked up in the playground) which means something like "I want be in control, and so I reject whatever it is you think I want". In 2022 "boring" is the worst accusation that can be levelled against anything. It's adults who create and propagate the conceit of "boredom". How could anybody actually be bored in this world, with all the marvels and freedom we have?! What adults mean is something different; "Don't leave me alone with myself, exposed to the existential chasm in my soul, and my abject learned helplessness".
- CRConrad 5y ago
  > What adults mean is something different; "Don't leave me alone with myself, exposed to the existential chasm in my soul, and my abject learned helplessness". I've come to accept and adopt my late father's idea about the purpose of portable music players, which he formulated shortly after the Sony Walkman had got competition from other brands of cassette players, and which now, after an (in retrospect rather short) interlude of dedicated MP3 players, applies to the music player apps in smartphones: That's why everybody[1] nowadays walks around constantly marinating their brains in a drizzle of background music[2]: To drown out their own thoughts -- or to cover the lack thereof. ___ [1]: i.e. more or less "everybody", at the time of writing, under the age of... Idunno, ~50? [2]: Or muzak, as Dad may have put it.
Jare 5y ago
> I'd claim that necessity is to invention as boredom is to creativity. This is a good point, but I would say that while one is fairly necessary for the other, it is far from sufficient. In the kind of context we were describing, it's certainly possible for people to pursue creative endeavors, but in most cases not in a way that opens up many avenues to break out of that environment.

nonrandomstring 5y ago

> > we're basically ensuring that the socioeconomic divide is going to turn into a chasm Yes I think that positive feedback cycle is already well established. > Depends on what's the alternative for all that screen time. I'm pretty convinced that the extra presence of screen time at the lower socioeconomic scale is a consequence of parents' lack of time, What is "lack of time"? A careless reader would assume you meant they are busy working [1]. No. The parents are on their phones. From birth all these kids see is mum's face lit from below with a blue light. To start with, the kids try to break through neglect and inattention by calling "mum" mum!" and trying ever more naughty things to get attention. Eventually they are given a phone of their own (aged 2 is the youngest I have seen) as a pacifier. The parents give their kids the same digital drugs to be free of their "disruption" so they can indulge their own addictions. > So, the actual alternatives to screen time might likely be worse .... early exposure to adult world I know what you meant (sex, violence, alcohol...), but the stark reality is that the "adult world" is staring into a 6 inch screen for 12 hours. Adults don't have time for anything else nowadays. These pacifiers work for all ages. It's natural that children want to copy what they see adults doing. [1] It's actually when the parents are working that these digital orphans get better childcare, as they're usually at school or with an adult caregiver who has them in mind.

CRConrad 5y ago
> What is "lack of time"? A careless reader would assume you meant they are busy working [1]. No. The parents are on their phones. From birth all these kids see is mum's face lit from below with a blue light. Sure, that may exist. But your generalisation is so sweeping as to be in effect just a slur against the poor. > I know what you meant (sex, violence, alcohol...), but the stark reality is that the "adult world" is staring into a 6 inch screen for 12 hours. Adults don't have time for anything else nowadays. These pacifiers work for all ages. Ah, OK, so it's a slur against everybody? I suppose that's better... Somehow. Or are you still talking mainly about the less-well-off? Then my point above remains.