5 ms·

I read through the nearly 400 comments and no one brought up using the LTSC edition of Windows, which actually gets out of your way or that you don't own the OS

I read through the nearly 400 comments and no one brought up using the LTSC edition of Windows, which actually gets out of your way or that you don't own the OS when you use a proprietary operating system. I'm not really sure what to make of this as it seems people prefer to complain as if they were hostages to the whims of others. I buy my computers with Linux pre-installed on supported machines. All those complaints of Linux "still not working" in 2022 effortlessly glide over the obvious: you're already making it an unfair fight when you adopt an OS to a non-native machine. If you don't own the OS what's the point of complaining? MacOS and Windows will never have the best interests of the user at heart because that's not where the capital incentives are. It's really as simple as that. Are you going to develop a patch for Windows that makes Windows do as you want? If you do, who at Microsoft is going to take your PR? No one? This behavior should be blindingly obvious to anyone who thinks for a second where the incentives are. If the incentives are not aligned with yours, it's time to a. consider paying for a volume license for LTSC so you can get the experience you want that you pay for and vote with your dollars or b. use an OS that isn't abusive. C. moan and complain isn't actually a productive strategy because the money bundled into your OS cost is neglible to the value of your metrics and pushing a subscription to Office that actually makes Microsoft money. People keep smashing this button in the vain hope something will change. Stop and think. Follow the money. Do something about your situation that doesn't enrage you so often.

tomerv 5y ago
> consider paying for a volume license for LTSC And if I just want a single Windows machine and not 5?
- emptysongglass 5y ago
  Unfortunately, this is the price you pay to let Microsoft know the OS you want respects you as a user.
pjmlp 5y ago
> I buy my computers with Linux pre-installed on supported machines. All those complaints of Linux "still not working" in 2022 effortlessly glide over the obvious: you're already making it an unfair fight when you adopt an OS to a non-native machine I did as well, an Asus 1215B netbook, remember those? The wlan still has issues to work properly to this day, the graphics card should be able to do OpenGL 4.1/DirectX 11, yet the AMD driver only does OpenGL 3.3. Good that it was shipped with official Linux support.
- emptysongglass 5y ago
  I think that's a cherry-picked example of a very old machine. I've had a bug-free experience with the XPS 13 Developer Edition and Purism's line of laptops (I won't comment on the hardware quality of Purism's laptops here because that's a separate issue). I'm expecting a Framework soon, which touts official support for Fedora so looking forward to yet another bug-free experience there.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Why cherry-picked? It is what I got the fortune of owning, same thing can happen to anyone else. XPS 13 Developer Edition you say? https://medium.com/@AlexMichelOrg/like-linux-then-dont-buy-dell-s-new-xps-13-78952ae8e8bd https://medium.com/@AlexMichelOrg/like-linux-then-dont-buy-d...
    - emptysongglass 5y ago
      Yes but it's an extremely old example and not at all indicative of the environment around owning a Linux-shipped laptop today. Have you owned and used an XPS 13 Developer Edition? Because now it just looks like you're driving around the internet for examples of things that prop up your argument. I have one I use every day and have for the three years I've owned it. It works great on Ubuntu and Arch Linux. No complaints.
      - pjmlp 5y ago
        Not at all, showing that it isn't the walk in the part that gets sold even when buying hardware that is shipping with Linux in the box, and far from what most people get at best buy and friends with other desktop OSes. It is always the other people's fault that Linux doesn't quite work, but "my system works just perfectly", when in reality keeps being the same hit and miss as always.
DoingIsLearning 5y ago
Windows knows full well LTSC is pain free but also less profitable. Sales will act really difficult, to sell it to a business unless they complain they are doing something mission critical. Also as far as I know it's difficult to buy LTSC as a private costumer.
- emptysongglass 5y ago
  Anyone can buy a volume license. You'll need to pay 200ish dollars or so but for an OS you use every day and provided the 400 comments here are indicative of a real desire to use a non-abusive edition of Windows, it's a bargain! To buy one you'll need to go through a Microsoft Partner as detailed here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/licensing/how-to-buy/how-to-buy https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/licensing/how-to-buy/how-to-... Searching the web for "buy ltsc license" is also fruitful.
deadbeeves 5y ago
I don't think even the LTSC edition avoids the UX problems discussed here. All the LTSC does is freeze the features Windows had at release and give you security updates. You're still stuck with whatever was there at launch. Suggesting switching to an entirely different OS to someone who's complaining that their habitual OS no longer behaves as it used to isn't very useful. >I'm not really sure what to make of this as it seems people prefer to complain as if they were hostages to the whims of others. I buy my computers with Linux pre-installed on supported machines. You don't understand because you're failing to empathize with what people are saying, because it's not a problem you personally experience. Let's see if this works: suppose you find a shoe manufacturer that makes these really neat shoes that you love. You love them so much that every time they wear out, you buy the next model from that manufacturer. Each model is slightly different from the last, but you like all of them better than the competition. As you've gotten used to them, you've started to develop certain habits with these shoes, such as a technique to tie the laces that makes you do it very fast. But over time, the manufacturer has started to change the way it makes the shoes, such that they're not as comfortable as they used to be, or some of your habits no longer work with them. Now, you don't want to buy from a different manufacturer. At this point your feet are accustomed to the way these shoes fit, and other shoes feel completely different, even if in some ways they're objectively better. You don't want shoes from a different brand, you want the shoes this one used to make, which used to be so much better than this. TL;DR: Something can be worse than it used to be, and still be better than the alternatives.
- emptysongglass 5y ago
  > You don't understand because you're failing to empathize with what people are saying, because it's not a problem you personally experience. To be clear I support my wife's LTSC install and use Windows 11 with WSL and WSLg for work. > I don't think even the LTSC edition avoids the UX problems discussed here. I think it does but please highlight which problems it doesnt avoid. > suppose you find a shoe manufacturer that makes these really neat shoes that you love. Do they respect me as a user? What are their capital incentives? If not aligned with mine why do I love them? Can I change my purchasing habits so their capital incentives align? If not, I should probably do something less rage-inducing for my own health.

tomerv 5y ago

> consider paying for a volume license for LTSC And if I just want a single Windows machine and not 5?

emptysongglass 5y ago
Unfortunately, this is the price you pay to let Microsoft know the OS you want respects you as a user.

pjmlp 5y ago

> I buy my computers with Linux pre-installed on supported machines. All those complaints of Linux "still not working" in 2022 effortlessly glide over the obvious: you're already making it an unfair fight when you adopt an OS to a non-native machine I did as well, an Asus 1215B netbook, remember those? The wlan still has issues to work properly to this day, the graphics card should be able to do OpenGL 4.1/DirectX 11, yet the AMD driver only does OpenGL 3.3. Good that it was shipped with official Linux support.

emptysongglass 5y ago
I think that's a cherry-picked example of a very old machine. I've had a bug-free experience with the XPS 13 Developer Edition and Purism's line of laptops (I won't comment on the hardware quality of Purism's laptops here because that's a separate issue). I'm expecting a Framework soon, which touts official support for Fedora so looking forward to yet another bug-free experience there.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Why cherry-picked? It is what I got the fortune of owning, same thing can happen to anyone else. XPS 13 Developer Edition you say? https://medium.com/@AlexMichelOrg/like-linux-then-dont-buy-dell-s-new-xps-13-78952ae8e8bd https://medium.com/@AlexMichelOrg/like-linux-then-dont-buy-d...
  - emptysongglass 5y ago
    Yes but it's an extremely old example and not at all indicative of the environment around owning a Linux-shipped laptop today. Have you owned and used an XPS 13 Developer Edition? Because now it just looks like you're driving around the internet for examples of things that prop up your argument. I have one I use every day and have for the three years I've owned it. It works great on Ubuntu and Arch Linux. No complaints.
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      Not at all, showing that it isn't the walk in the part that gets sold even when buying hardware that is shipping with Linux in the box, and far from what most people get at best buy and friends with other desktop OSes. It is always the other people's fault that Linux doesn't quite work, but "my system works just perfectly", when in reality keeps being the same hit and miss as always.

DoingIsLearning 5y ago

Windows knows full well LTSC is pain free but also less profitable. Sales will act really difficult, to sell it to a business unless they complain they are doing something mission critical. Also as far as I know it's difficult to buy LTSC as a private costumer.

emptysongglass 5y ago
Anyone can buy a volume license. You'll need to pay 200ish dollars or so but for an OS you use every day and provided the 400 comments here are indicative of a real desire to use a non-abusive edition of Windows, it's a bargain! To buy one you'll need to go through a Microsoft Partner as detailed here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/licensing/how-to-buy/how-to-buy https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/licensing/how-to-buy/how-to-... Searching the web for "buy ltsc license" is also fruitful.

deadbeeves 5y ago

I don't think even the LTSC edition avoids the UX problems discussed here. All the LTSC does is freeze the features Windows had at release and give you security updates. You're still stuck with whatever was there at launch. Suggesting switching to an entirely different OS to someone who's complaining that their habitual OS no longer behaves as it used to isn't very useful. >I'm not really sure what to make of this as it seems people prefer to complain as if they were hostages to the whims of others. I buy my computers with Linux pre-installed on supported machines. You don't understand because you're failing to empathize with what people are saying, because it's not a problem you personally experience. Let's see if this works: suppose you find a shoe manufacturer that makes these really neat shoes that you love. You love them so much that every time they wear out, you buy the next model from that manufacturer. Each model is slightly different from the last, but you like all of them better than the competition. As you've gotten used to them, you've started to develop certain habits with these shoes, such as a technique to tie the laces that makes you do it very fast. But over time, the manufacturer has started to change the way it makes the shoes, such that they're not as comfortable as they used to be, or some of your habits no longer work with them. Now, you don't want to buy from a different manufacturer. At this point your feet are accustomed to the way these shoes fit, and other shoes feel completely different, even if in some ways they're objectively better. You don't want shoes from a different brand, you want the shoes this one used to make, which used to be so much better than this. TL;DR: Something can be worse than it used to be, and still be better than the alternatives.

emptysongglass 5y ago
> You don't understand because you're failing to empathize with what people are saying, because it's not a problem you personally experience. To be clear I support my wife's LTSC install and use Windows 11 with WSL and WSLg for work. > I don't think even the LTSC edition avoids the UX problems discussed here. I think it does but please highlight which problems it doesnt avoid. > suppose you find a shoe manufacturer that makes these really neat shoes that you love. Do they respect me as a user? What are their capital incentives? If not aligned with mine why do I love them? Can I change my purchasing habits so their capital incentives align? If not, I should probably do something less rage-inducing for my own health.