5 ms·

I don't really care how a company arrange their PCBs. It's just like writing code, as long as the code is correct, easily readable, expressive and have great ev

by nirui 5y ago

I don't really care how a company arrange their PCBs. It's just like writing code, as long as the code is correct, easily readable, expressive and have great eventual performance, it's a good code, you don't have to keep your lines in a visually beautiful perfect symmetry to achieve that. The same is true for PCB design: as long as the board is correct, reasonable, stable and have good performance, it's a good board. Based on the video, in order to clean up the dirty fans in this machine (something you'll start to do eventually), you'll have to: 1. Un-glue the button rubble stand ring to access the body screws, 2. Remove the exposed power supply (Risk getting shocked or worse), 3. Detach almost everything (screws, tapes and cables) you can see, so you can un-mount the main board to access the fans. Then, after done cleaning, you have to do everything again but in reverse. My opinion is, Apple can make their circuits look like a Steve Jobs thonk pose, but if an user has to go through all that many trouble and risks to preform such simple and (rare but) routine task, this design is bad.

kiratp 5y ago
Our devs aren't cleaning their machines - it goes to Apple. As long as their techs can do it it matters not. Its cheaper that way anyway. This design optimizes for the rest of the (365 * 3) - 1 days that the machine takes less space on your desk and is whisper quiet.
- AHTERIX5000 5y ago
  Cheaper to send the whole machine to Apple for servicing? I worked at a company where most users had simple PCs with dust filters and it took 5 seconds to clean those when fans started ramping up due to accumulated dust. I can't really see how it would be cheaper to pause all work and send the machine somewhere else for cleaning. Heatsinks and thermal pastes, no-one really cared since they should be fine for years until the machine is replaced anyway.
- Hamuko 5y ago
  I've definitely cleaned my work machine by myself. I imagine my employer also appreciates it, since the alternative would be to be without a work machine for however long.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Casteil 5y ago
Had this same thought when I watched this teardown when it came out a few days ago. I'm a big fan of the power/efficiency of the M1 (and all variants), but it's completely ridiculous that the teardown is so involved to get at the fans/heatsink for cleaning.
lwhi 5y ago
I think Apple would rather you buy a new machine.
oxplot 5y ago
> if an user has to go through all that many trouble and risks to preform such simple and (rare but) routine task, this design is bad You're assuming an Apple user is meant to service their own product. That's not the case as far as Apple is concerned. You have an issue, you drop by the Apple store (or send your device in) and they repair it for you. Determining good-ness or bad-ness of a design has to take into account the intended usage and design goals. Whether a customer should be able to repair their device easily/at all, is a whole separate topic. Apple doesn't think so and their design decisions have clearly reflected that over the decades. As far as that goes, whether the end user has to dig through 20 layers of hardware before cleaning a fan is irrelevant. What's relevant is whether Apple employees who'll be fixing/cleaning these devices will be wasting too much time for the most frequent support requests. That's what Apple should be (and most certainly is) optimizing for. Also note that the majority of the end users will not have the time nor the interest to repair their own devices, especially when in most cases, their repair is covered under warranty. A lot of people with the technical skills far more than needed to to the self repair fall into this category as well. I've been modding and hacking expensive hardware for decades mostly for fun, but also for practical reasons, in order to add to/modify behavior of the hardware. Even I have little interest to repair my Apple products I have paid premium dollars on. I increasingly value where I spend my time and I let Apple do my laundry for me. I must also mention (given the high degree of Apple/Google/Facebook/... bashing on HN) that Apple is among the better, if not the best, manufacturers in terms of warranty service and support (at least where I live). I have requested warranty services for dozens of products and not once have had to "prove" my case, or so much as try to convince Apple of an issue. Compared to every other worse interaction with other brands, I will continue to pay top dollars for Apple products even at the cost of whatever the hot Apple knocking topic of the day is. Having said that, there are of course tools that I need full access and repairability as a given and I never go with Apple in those cases.
- Osiris 5y ago
  He's not talking about repair. He's talking about cleaning. Cleaning should not require an Apple certified technician.
  - 5y ago
jazzyjackson 5y ago
Or get a separate HEPA filter in the same room as the mac so you and your CPU can skip breathing dust bunnies
- willcipriano 5y ago
  Isn't the problem this is trying to solve fan noise?
- k8sToGo 5y ago
  Ah yes, the apple way. Buy more to fix our bad design decision.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  Or like, clean your room / house for a change. A vacuum and dust cloths go a long way. A roomba isn't enough. HEPA filters should only be used for the rest, if any, but those small particulates won't affect the fans much.
everyone 5y ago
Those sort of shenanigans will be illegal in EU soon hopefully.
- _ph_ 5y ago
  At minimum, Apple should be required to perform a cleaning for free. That would quickly ensure good accessibility. Equally, the cost for a keyboard exchange on a laptop should be capped at about 100€.
hughrr 5y ago
I service far more dangerous and complicated things regularly. Some from an era before safety was even a thing. This Mac is fairly easy to service. Not that I’d bother to service it as I’d rather apple handled it these days so I can go and play inside the old dangerous stuff instead. (HP 141T on the bench at the moment)
Maursault 5y ago
> in order to clean up the dirty fans in this machine Maybe do something about the dirty air instead? Also, unless in a dusty industrial environment, by the time a computer fan and chassis is filthy, it's already legacy equipment. If a computer is used for work, to generate income, replacing it every 2 years is the cost of doing business and a write-off. But I suppose if a typical Mac user, one would have to go through the trouble of blowing out the dust every 4 years.

by nirui 5y ago

kiratp 5y ago

Our devs aren't cleaning their machines - it goes to Apple. As long as their techs can do it it matters not. Its cheaper that way anyway. This design optimizes for the rest of the (365 * 3) - 1 days that the machine takes less space on your desk and is whisper quiet.

AHTERIX5000 5y ago
Cheaper to send the whole machine to Apple for servicing? I worked at a company where most users had simple PCs with dust filters and it took 5 seconds to clean those when fans started ramping up due to accumulated dust. I can't really see how it would be cheaper to pause all work and send the machine somewhere else for cleaning. Heatsinks and thermal pastes, no-one really cared since they should be fine for years until the machine is replaced anyway.
Hamuko 5y ago
I've definitely cleaned my work machine by myself. I imagine my employer also appreciates it, since the alternative would be to be without a work machine for however long.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Casteil 5y ago

Had this same thought when I watched this teardown when it came out a few days ago. I'm a big fan of the power/efficiency of the M1 (and all variants), but it's completely ridiculous that the teardown is so involved to get at the fans/heatsink for cleaning.

lwhi 5y ago

I think Apple would rather you buy a new machine.

oxplot 5y ago

> if an user has to go through all that many trouble and risks to preform such simple and (rare but) routine task, this design is bad You're assuming an Apple user is meant to service their own product. That's not the case as far as Apple is concerned. You have an issue, you drop by the Apple store (or send your device in) and they repair it for you. Determining good-ness or bad-ness of a design has to take into account the intended usage and design goals. Whether a customer should be able to repair their device easily/at all, is a whole separate topic. Apple doesn't think so and their design decisions have clearly reflected that over the decades. As far as that goes, whether the end user has to dig through 20 layers of hardware before cleaning a fan is irrelevant. What's relevant is whether Apple employees who'll be fixing/cleaning these devices will be wasting too much time for the most frequent support requests. That's what Apple should be (and most certainly is) optimizing for. Also note that the majority of the end users will not have the time nor the interest to repair their own devices, especially when in most cases, their repair is covered under warranty. A lot of people with the technical skills far more than needed to to the self repair fall into this category as well. I've been modding and hacking expensive hardware for decades mostly for fun, but also for practical reasons, in order to add to/modify behavior of the hardware. Even I have little interest to repair my Apple products I have paid premium dollars on. I increasingly value where I spend my time and I let Apple do my laundry for me. I must also mention (given the high degree of Apple/Google/Facebook/... bashing on HN) that Apple is among the better, if not the best, manufacturers in terms of warranty service and support (at least where I live). I have requested warranty services for dozens of products and not once have had to "prove" my case, or so much as try to convince Apple of an issue. Compared to every other worse interaction with other brands, I will continue to pay top dollars for Apple products even at the cost of whatever the hot Apple knocking topic of the day is. Having said that, there are of course tools that I need full access and repairability as a given and I never go with Apple in those cases.

Osiris 5y ago
He's not talking about repair. He's talking about cleaning. Cleaning should not require an Apple certified technician.
- 5y ago

jazzyjackson 5y ago

Or get a separate HEPA filter in the same room as the mac so you and your CPU can skip breathing dust bunnies

willcipriano 5y ago
Isn't the problem this is trying to solve fan noise?
k8sToGo 5y ago
Ah yes, the apple way. Buy more to fix our bad design decision.
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
Or like, clean your room / house for a change. A vacuum and dust cloths go a long way. A roomba isn't enough. HEPA filters should only be used for the rest, if any, but those small particulates won't affect the fans much.

everyone 5y ago

Those sort of shenanigans will be illegal in EU soon hopefully.

_ph_ 5y ago
At minimum, Apple should be required to perform a cleaning for free. That would quickly ensure good accessibility. Equally, the cost for a keyboard exchange on a laptop should be capped at about 100€.

hughrr 5y ago

I service far more dangerous and complicated things regularly. Some from an era before safety was even a thing. This Mac is fairly easy to service. Not that I’d bother to service it as I’d rather apple handled it these days so I can go and play inside the old dangerous stuff instead. (HP 141T on the bench at the moment)

Maursault 5y ago

> in order to clean up the dirty fans in this machine Maybe do something about the dirty air instead? Also, unless in a dusty industrial environment, by the time a computer fan and chassis is filthy, it's already legacy equipment. If a computer is used for work, to generate income, replacing it every 2 years is the cost of doing business and a write-off. But I suppose if a typical Mac user, one would have to go through the trouble of blowing out the dust every 4 years.