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It is so refreshing to see this take. I was on a path to be a history Ph.D candidate - I wanted to teach, and archive diving is basically my own personal drug.

It is so refreshing to see this take. I was on a path to be a history Ph.D candidate - I wanted to teach, and archive diving is basically my own personal drug. The problem is it’s “publish or perish,” as we all know. My higher priority, i.e. teaching, was essentially an obstacle. You know how I know that? My own advisor and other department members told me not to get my doctorate (after writing a 60 page thesis mind you, which I’m still a tad bitter about given how this turns out haha). They said no program wants to hear how I want to teach and that absolutely no one will hire me, then I won’t get published, and I’ll end up (if I’m lucky!) teaching at an expensive boarding school in a place I don’t get to choose. I’m not saying I would’ve gotten into even a decent program. Hell I may have been a mediocre at best teacher. But it never felt right to me that teaching at colleges isn’t a viable career path. It was so odd to learn that my dream was simply not allowed, especially when it seemed so reasonable.

gjs278 5y ago
wjossey 5y ago
Dropped out of a comp sci PhD program after a year for this exact same reason. Will go get my masters some day so I can teach in retirement, but was saddened teaching in higher ed couldn’t be the end game.
- giantg2 5y ago
  I had an advisor in undergrad that tried to convince me to teach. Im glad I didn't listen to him. I hate my current job, but I'm certain I would have hated that more.
pokepim 5y ago
History PhD candidate at Hacker News? I’m really curious, do you like programming/tech as a hobby or did you take another path in the end?
- Forgeties79 5y ago
  Good question haha I ended up going into film! Just ended 10 years of freelancing as a cam op/editor/producer (we wear a lot of hats these days) and am now an in-house video producer for a tech start up in New Orleans. I also produce podcasts for a few clients on the side and co-host one show I produce. My work has always had me “tech-adjacent.” Especially the way I operate. It’s kind of hard to explain in solid terms but yeah, a few years ago I found myself here and I’ve liked it ever since. A lot of the stuff is over my head, but that’s where I learn best. You never know where you’re going to find relevant information from seemingly irrelevant posts. HN is also great for some of my hobbies. I like messing with computers, video games, modding, etc. and love reading about other hobbies and sub cultures. Also get a lot of great tech history content here.
BlameKaneda 5y ago
> I wanted to teach, and archive diving is basically my own personal drug. The problem is it’s “publish or perish,” as we all know. My higher priority, i.e. teaching, was essentially an obstacle. I got an Associate's degree at a community college, and one of the most refreshing things about it was how un-focused the professors were on research. Teaching was their Number One, and I attribute much of my overall enjoyment to their attitudes. I then transferred to a 4-year school and received my Bachelor's in two years. The professors at this university did research, but they were also committed to teaching and interpersonal relationships with students. I'd been given the option to transfer to a large (40k+ university), and although it was more well-known I knew that I'd be in gigantic class sizes with research-heavy instructors.
- achileas 5y ago
  It's not that they're unfocused on research, they don't do research as part of their CC duties. IME many are bored retirees, underemployed MS/MA holders, or adjuncts moonlighting. IME many aren't technically professors either, instead they're instructors. It's a weird distinction but academics huff and puff about it a lot.
mordymoop 5y ago
I didn’t find out until many years after graduating that the US is sprinkled with what are known as Primarily Undergraduate Institutions (PUIs), including a large number of well-regarded 4-year colleged which don’t have graduate programs, the professors don’t do (much) research (but do have PhDs generally) and the hiring and evaluation decisions are 90% based on teaching. These institutions are usually on the small side and don’t make money in grants because they don’t do research, so they don’t spend millions in advertising or in sending out interviewers to thousands of high schools. So there’s a good chance you’ve never heard of even the ones you live near to. These schools tend to produce both better experiences (less reliance on the painful “weed-out course” degree plan architecture of huge school) and somewhat better outcomes. I will almost certainly be sending my kids to be PUI and not a megaversity when they’re older.
- Forgeties79 5y ago
  Fascinating. I’ll look into these - never heard of them!
  - mywittyname 5y ago
    I think these are the evolution of the community college system. Many institutions that previous issued two-year degrees and certificates began offering four-year degrees, perhaps in conjunction with a larger, local university to fill gaps.
    - sidr 5y ago
      Not really. A lot of these small liberal arts colleges date back to the 1800s. The more prestigious ones are often priced like private R1 institutions as well. I'm sure there are some two-year institutions that started offering four-year degrees, but it's not typically the case afaik.
- doom2 5y ago
  How many of them have strong STEM programs though? My partner went to a PUI, but it was firmly a liberal arts school (not that you can't move into STEM with a liberal arts degree). I chose my own undergraduate school because it had a decent engineering program but obviously was a research university. The two I can think of are Harvey Mudd and Rose Hulman.
tikiman163 5y ago
Dude, getting a PhD is about becoming a philosopher, it's literally in the name. You can't do that but only teach.
- Forgeties79 5y ago
  It’s not like I expected to literally only teach. The problem is it can’t be a priority under the current system.

gjs278 5y ago

wjossey 5y ago

Dropped out of a comp sci PhD program after a year for this exact same reason. Will go get my masters some day so I can teach in retirement, but was saddened teaching in higher ed couldn’t be the end game.

giantg2 5y ago
I had an advisor in undergrad that tried to convince me to teach. Im glad I didn't listen to him. I hate my current job, but I'm certain I would have hated that more.

pokepim 5y ago

History PhD candidate at Hacker News? I’m really curious, do you like programming/tech as a hobby or did you take another path in the end?

Forgeties79 5y ago
Good question haha I ended up going into film! Just ended 10 years of freelancing as a cam op/editor/producer (we wear a lot of hats these days) and am now an in-house video producer for a tech start up in New Orleans. I also produce podcasts for a few clients on the side and co-host one show I produce. My work has always had me “tech-adjacent.” Especially the way I operate. It’s kind of hard to explain in solid terms but yeah, a few years ago I found myself here and I’ve liked it ever since. A lot of the stuff is over my head, but that’s where I learn best. You never know where you’re going to find relevant information from seemingly irrelevant posts. HN is also great for some of my hobbies. I like messing with computers, video games, modding, etc. and love reading about other hobbies and sub cultures. Also get a lot of great tech history content here.

BlameKaneda 5y ago

> I wanted to teach, and archive diving is basically my own personal drug. The problem is it’s “publish or perish,” as we all know. My higher priority, i.e. teaching, was essentially an obstacle. I got an Associate's degree at a community college, and one of the most refreshing things about it was how un-focused the professors were on research. Teaching was their Number One, and I attribute much of my overall enjoyment to their attitudes. I then transferred to a 4-year school and received my Bachelor's in two years. The professors at this university did research, but they were also committed to teaching and interpersonal relationships with students. I'd been given the option to transfer to a large (40k+ university), and although it was more well-known I knew that I'd be in gigantic class sizes with research-heavy instructors.

achileas 5y ago
It's not that they're unfocused on research, they don't do research as part of their CC duties. IME many are bored retirees, underemployed MS/MA holders, or adjuncts moonlighting. IME many aren't technically professors either, instead they're instructors. It's a weird distinction but academics huff and puff about it a lot.

mordymoop 5y ago

I didn’t find out until many years after graduating that the US is sprinkled with what are known as Primarily Undergraduate Institutions (PUIs), including a large number of well-regarded 4-year colleged which don’t have graduate programs, the professors don’t do (much) research (but do have PhDs generally) and the hiring and evaluation decisions are 90% based on teaching. These institutions are usually on the small side and don’t make money in grants because they don’t do research, so they don’t spend millions in advertising or in sending out interviewers to thousands of high schools. So there’s a good chance you’ve never heard of even the ones you live near to. These schools tend to produce both better experiences (less reliance on the painful “weed-out course” degree plan architecture of huge school) and somewhat better outcomes. I will almost certainly be sending my kids to be PUI and not a megaversity when they’re older.

Forgeties79 5y ago
Fascinating. I’ll look into these - never heard of them!
- mywittyname 5y ago
  I think these are the evolution of the community college system. Many institutions that previous issued two-year degrees and certificates began offering four-year degrees, perhaps in conjunction with a larger, local university to fill gaps.
  - sidr 5y ago
    Not really. A lot of these small liberal arts colleges date back to the 1800s. The more prestigious ones are often priced like private R1 institutions as well. I'm sure there are some two-year institutions that started offering four-year degrees, but it's not typically the case afaik.
doom2 5y ago
How many of them have strong STEM programs though? My partner went to a PUI, but it was firmly a liberal arts school (not that you can't move into STEM with a liberal arts degree). I chose my own undergraduate school because it had a decent engineering program but obviously was a research university. The two I can think of are Harvey Mudd and Rose Hulman.

tikiman163 5y ago

Dude, getting a PhD is about becoming a philosopher, it's literally in the name. You can't do that but only teach.

Forgeties79 5y ago
It’s not like I expected to literally only teach. The problem is it can’t be a priority under the current system.